What is the point of mandatory vaccination to work in care?

[DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo]

Of another industries, for that matter?

Months and months ago, when vaccines where just becoming available, I believed that being vaccinated against COVID would protect you from a: catching Covid, and b: passing it on.

I therefore thought that if you worked with vulnerable people, it seemed very reasonable that you should be vaccinated to protect them, even if you weren't concerned about yourself.

Now this has morphed into a vaccine that doesn't stop you contracting Covid, doesn't stop you being infectious, but should stop you getting very sick, I feel differently.

My family are all double vaccinated.
We've all contracted Covid over the last month or so, and early on, passed it on unwittingly.

AIBU to no longer see the reasoning in insisting care workers etc. MUST be vaccinated to keep their jobs?

My understanding is that it makes you less infectious, so less likely to pass it on. I havent got an issue with mandatory vaccination in healthcare settings (as long as exceptions are made for people unable to have vaccine for medical reasons) I work in healthcare and had to be uptodate with a number of different vaccines before I started.

The number of vaccinated people I know who have now contracted Covid would indicate that's not correct, @Athinginitself .

The plural of anecdote is not data

YANBU
New starters, yes. Existing employees? No.
It is not like there are people queuing round the block to work in care either.

@malmi

The plural of anecdote is not data

And yet I know of several people who have been in close contact with a confirmed covid case in an enclosed space for several hours(car journey) were double jabbed but never caught covid.
Your family just may be unlucky it doesn't mean your small sampling means the vaccine doesn't work.

It helps keep people safe by reducing the chance of getting covid, reducing the chance of passing it on, and reducing the chance of needing hospital treatment. It's never going to stop a virus 100% of the time in 100% of people. No vaccine created ever does that.

Occupational health has stipulated for many many years you need to be up to date on all vaccinations and have antibodies to varicella. This is not anything new.

@AJB3001

Occupational health has stipulated for many many years you need to be up to date on all vaccinations and have antibodies to varicella. This is not anything new.

I didn't know that, @AJB3001 - are those mandatory?

presumably the same reason they need rubella, mumps, TB, diphtheria, tetanus and all the hepatitis jabs?
to keep you working for as long as possible no going home feeling "flu like".
generally people in care are frail and vulnerable. it is out of caution to protect them from untoward infections.
honestly it's all for appearances, it looks good that a facility has this policy in place. families can be really odd about placing loved ones into care.

You are less likely to get covid and need to self-isolate, protecting staffing levels.

You will not have to self-isolate if you have been in contact with a positive case, protecting staffing levels.

You are less likely to need hospitalisation or die, protecting both yourself and staffing levels.

You are less likely to pass it on, protecting vulnerable residents.

Public consultation showed that it was a very popular move with care home owners, residents and their families, providing the highest level of protection for every stakeholder.

It has never been suggested that being vaccinated would prevent someone becoming infected or being infectious. Why did you think that, DontDrink ?

The country I live in publishes data split into vaccinated/ non vaccinated.
From today:
Non vaccinated: 437/ 100000 people covid positive
Vaccinated: 50/ 100000 people covid positive

So you are far LESS likely to get covid if you are vaccinated.

Obviously if you don't have it then you can't pass it on, so statistically you are much safer to be around.

@Moonmelodies

It has never been suggested that being vaccinated would prevent someone becoming infected or being infectious. Why did you think that, DontDrink ?

I'm fairly sure that was the intimation

in the very early days, @Moonmelodies

I know that message has been rewritten.

"We also know that getting both doses of your jab reduces your risk of unknowingly passing the virus on to others."

According to Head of Immunisation at PHE.

I think anyone who works with vulnerable people should be vaccinated. I'm still annoyed we can't enter my son's nursery because a number of staff have chosen not to be vaccinated.
My husband and I are double jabbed and neither of us have caught Covid (touch wood) since being vaccinated. This is despite the fact we have been in close contact with positive cases and the fact we both work with the public.
I think your family have been unlucky but hope you're feeling better now.
Did you have it badly? Or was it mild as surely point is it doesn't make you so sick that you end up in hospital?

The vaccine reduces the chances of catching it and passing it on. It's even more important that people who regularly spend time with vulnerable people, who are still the most likely to get the most ill (and are the ones most likely to have the lowest response to the vaccine) get vaccinated due to who they are mixing with.

Yes. I have several members of my family that work in medical professions. I am also starting a degree in a medical profession and cannot commence my course without occupational health seeing my up to date vaccination record

It doesn’t “stop” you being infected, but it does greatly reduce the probability that you will become infected.

It doesn’t “stop” you passing it on, but it does make it considerably less likely.

So, being vaccinated does indeed provide protection to people round you. Not 100%, that’s true, but you are considerably less likely to catch Covid if everyone around you is vaccinated than if no-one is. And if you’re a frail person living in a care home, that could be the difference between life and death.

So personally I think it is reasonable to expect care workers to be vaccinated, unless their own medical condition makes it risky for them.

@malmi

The plural of anecdote is not data

This. The vaccine isn't foolproof, but it does significantly reduce the risk of catching the virus.

The vast majority of the adult population (almost 90%) have now had at least one dose.

The ZOE study calculates your risk of getting Covid after being vaccinated is between 1 in 500 and 1 in 3,333 (0.2 - 0.003%).

You're three times less likely to get Covid if you are vaccinated, but there are approximately 9 times as many people in that cohort than there are unvaccinated. You have to bear that in mind.

@malmi

The plural of anecdote is not data

This.

I remember a very early information release from the Astra Zeneca animal trials reporting that the animals still sometimes caught Covid but that the severity of the illness was hugely reduced. The figures and the hospitalisation evidence bear that out. Covid is a very tough bug to outwit.

I work in hospitals and have always had to have hepatitis vaccinations - I'm not sure it was mandatory but it felt that way! Given the strong age and vulnerability profile for Covid, I can certainly see why mandatory vaccination is being promoted.

@Rosebel

I think anyone who works with vulnerable people should be vaccinated. I'm still annoyed we can't enter my son's nursery because a number of staff have chosen not to be vaccinated. My husband and I are double jabbed and neither of us have caught Covid (touch wood) since being vaccinated. This is despite the fact we have been in close contact with positive cases and the fact we both work with the public. I think your family have been unlucky but hope you're feeling better now. Did you have it badly? Or was it mild as surely point is it doesn't make you so sick that you end up in hospital?

We didn't need hospital treatment, thankfully.

I was in bed for 3 weeks and then antibiotics for ongoing chest infection..

The Covid board has many, many vaccinated people who have contacted Covid

It's one thing to say that vaccinated people who get covid are less contagious based on viral load or other testing in a lab setting. That's probably true. But I don't think we should assume that that translates to being less likely to infect others in a real-life setting. We know that the vaccine decreases symptoms, which means a vaccinated person is more likely to have a mild or asymptomatic case than an unvaccinated person. That would make them less likely to realize that anything is wrong, or to get tested. Even if someone doesn't care about exposing others at all, they're more likely to stay home for their own sake if they feel sick than if they feel fine or have only mild symptoms. IMHO, there needs to be a stronger scientific basis for the premise that vaccinated people are less likely to spread it before things like mandates could possibly be justified.

@PurpleOkapi
But vaccinated people are so much less likely to catch covid. If you don't catch it then you can't pass it on.

@DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo

The number of vaccinated people I know who have now contracted Covid would indicate that's not correct, *@Athinginitself* .

Lmao