To think this is so unsafe…

[MyBadHabitsLeadToYou]

Parents with toddlers on the back of the bike, cycling on busy city roads with the buses and the crazy drivers.

Howwww is this legal?! When the rules on car seats are so strict.

And don’t even start me on those flimsy trailer things that are so low down they couldn’t be seen from a large car.

Am I missing something??

I don't get the idea that a low trailer is ok for a child, close to the ground where the exhaust fumes are highest density. I have seen youngsters blasted from lorry exhausts, yet the parent up front is oblivious. Certainly not safe practice in my opinion.

I still don’t understand why so many posters are so judgmental about child bike seats.
I am a safe cyclist and would never have put my children at risk. The car fumes are affecting everyone, not just the child on the bike, and that includes children sitting inside the cars.
I have a car, I could have driven my children everywhere and contributed to those fumes. I chose not to.

A baby in a pram was recently killed nearby when a car mounted the pavement. It is cars that are dangerous not bikes

@MakeMathsFun

I don't get the idea that a low trailer is ok for a child, close to the ground where the exhaust fumes are highest density. I have seen youngsters blasted from lorry exhausts, yet the parent up front is oblivious. Certainly not safe practice in my opinion.

They're safer because

• they act as roll cages
• very low centre if gravity makes them very stable
• not far to fall if they do fall somehow. (Baby in bike seat iis falling 4ft to ground.

There's no more risk than that same child in a buggy being "blasted". That could happen on any given road as a pedestrian.

@Mischance

It is of course risky as all cyclists are at risk as they are so exposed; a child on the back or trailed on the back is more at risk. I worked for a trauma service and can safely say that bike injuries are bad because the rider has no protection.

Small children in the trailers are exactly at fume level and are breathing this in to young vulnerable lungs.

All a very bad idea.

Being in a car is risky and dangerous. Over 1800 kids (unfortunately) were seriously injured or killed in cars in 2018...Yet people do it every single day without anyone thinking it a "bad idea"

lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/lgastandard?mod-metric=305&mod-area=E92000001&mod-group=AllRegions_England&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup

One more time for the people at the back: "Air pollution more harmful to children in cars than outside"

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

Of course more people are killed while using cars. More people use cars and at higher speeds.

If you're in a collision with a car in a 30mph zone, would you prefer your children to be on or behind a bicycle or in another car?

:03Sleepinghyena

Yep, shocking. And not just on busy city roads either. Today I encountered one of those flimsy behind kiddy trailers on a hilly b road with a sheer drop down into a field below on one side. The type of road where there's no fence and you could literally just fall off the edge. Said road was also very twisty/turny so I encountered these two bikes, one with trailer with also zero warning as I went round a bend. You won't be surprised to know the road was also very narrow, so difficult to get round them whilst watching for oncoming cars round another bend. Absolutely an accident waiting to happen

Or you could just slow down give them space until it was safe to pass.

I really think this thread is grim, attacking parents who are trying to do the best for their children.“

How is putting them directly in harm’s way trying to do their best for them?

@Tresal

Cars are noisy, polluting, people drive them dangerously and they make you fat. I wish it was safer to cycle on the roads so that more people could do it.

Ohhh I just wanted to ask a question...how much road tax do cyclists pay? You want a better infrastructure? Put yer hand in yer pocket.

@MrsSkylerWhite

I really think this thread is grim, attacking parents who are trying to do the best for their children.“

How is putting them directly in harm’s way trying to do their best for them?

Because some people are really concerned about the many negative impacts of car use on children and want to find an alternative? Yes, of course there are risks associated with cycling on the road with car drivers but there many, very worrying and very real, impacts of car use on our children that most car driving parents are in total denial about ( which this thread perfectly demonstrates).

Educate yourself. No one pays road tax. It's vehicle emissions tax. Bikes have no emissions. We've not had road tax for years.

@Icepinkeskimo there is no such thing as ,"road tax" and hasn't been since it was abolished in 1937. You are confusing it with Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax based on the environmental impact of the vehicle. I would imagine if cyclists were subject to VED their contributions, like their environmental impact, would be tiny.

You want a better infrastructure?
Put yer hand in yer pocket.

I do put my hand in my pocket. I pay VED for my car, income tax, VAT, National insurance, insurance premium tax, council tax.
I don’t think that I’m asking for too much in expecting some of that tax to be allocated to cycling infrastructure

@CourgetteGlutTony

*You want a better infrastructure? Put yer hand in yer pocket.*

I do put my hand in my pocket. I pay VED for my car, income tax, VAT, National insurance, insurance premium tax, council tax.
I don’t think that I’m asking for too much in expecting some of that tax to be allocated to cycling infrastructure

And so do I and I also pay Corporation Tax, this cycling infrastructure you speak of, is already existent in London making it even more of a nightmare for business's to actually get back to business. The upshot of this is simple the traffic sits there instead of moving and pumps more contamination into the air. So what is the answer? You've got your cycle lanes but heavy duty transport cannot move...

Cyclists are part of the solution, not part of the problem. It’s not dangerous.

Unbelievable how some people hate and judge cyclists, and as for the ‘cyclists privilege’ comment

@Goldbar

Of course more people are killed while using cars. More people use cars and at higher speeds.

If you're in a collision with a car in a 30mph zone, would you prefer your children to be on or behind a bicycle or in another car?

That’s an extremely entitled and twisted way of thinking. Mad

@Thislittlefinger123

This is the future, all those parents are taking steps to actively tackle pollution and climate change. Showing their kids you don’t have to drive a noxious ridiculous vehicle a few miles to school or work or to the park, and instead you can be active and be part of the change. It’s people like you that’s has put us in this mess in the first place. As PP have said Amazon and others are now doing this in central London as more and more streets go car free and LTNs expand. Children in London are dying from air pollution. I cannot believe what I am reading.

This doesn't make sense. There's more than one alternative to putting a small child in a bike seat. I have 3 DC. I've never driven them to school, or to town. We walk everywhere, or if it's over an hour we would use the car, but poeple could use buses or trains. To say I'm part of the problem because I've never strapped my child to a flimsy seat in traffic is ridiculous

How much is the train or the bus? A bike is just as fast and after you bought it (once) its free. free. free. Thats why we bike, because its free. its good for us. its good for you. have you ever been late to school pick up because there were already prams on the bus and the driver drives past, not even giving you the option to put your pram down?

You have a car so you can walk or drive? well some people don't. some people have to walk or bike.

Maybe the parents are on the road for a short stretch because its unavoidable? maybe the parents are on the road for a short stretch because of road works and they couldn't go their normal route? or a big fuck off van parks on the path every fucking day and even pushchairs and wheelchairs have to venture out onto the busy road. maybe think.
also if you drive some of us think you're a bad parent too. all of those fumes.

ronswansonstache

I believe your breathing the fumes in either way? Through the air con vents ? I think drivers are also breathing in motor exhaust fumes so being a motorist does not mean you are breathing in fresh unpolluted air. Air pollution is bad for everyone so less cars on the road and more cyclists would be better surely? I think waiting at traffic lights with a pram where cars are in traffic jams is bad . The pram is level with the exhaust. I remember being in Marylebone with lots of yummy mummies collecting their children in designer togs and I felt the air quality around there was pure lead fumes then considering how tiny toddlers lungs are .Irony is it’s a highly desirable area to live ?!? I always pushed the pram on the back roads with less traffic as a nanny for this reason but in very polluted areas this would only make a slight improvement . What makes it worse is all the luxury housing developments right by very busy roads. The worst in development is in Wandsworth . Opposite the recycling dump with big dumper trucks everywhere busy polluted roads surrounding the area but I suppose where else are they going to house all the growing families populations are increasing we need more housing . The air quality on that development is going to be so bad including bad smells from the dump. I personally would not want my child dangling behind me on a bike though for balance reasons for safety .

@Kintsugi16. What is mad is putting your children in a flimsy aluminium and canvas trailers and taking them on busy roads used by cars, lorries and buses.

I have no problem with bike trailers used on cycle paths and I agree that we should have better infrastructure for cycling. But they should not be used in the same spaces as motor vehicles. If that means limiting motor vehicles, fine.

The upshot of this is simple the traffic sits there instead of moving and pumps more contamination into the air. So what is the answer? You've got your cycle lanes but heavy duty transport cannot move...

so you think cyclists are the cause of car traffic? really?

@MrsSkylerWhite

I really think this thread is grim, attacking parents who are trying to do the best for their children.“

How is putting them directly in harm’s way trying to do their best for them?

How is trashing the environment, causing local air pollution and setting your kids up for a sedentary life better?

@00100001

125 people died in the roads in London, of which 68 were pedestrians.
5 people died in a bike.

Basically its far nor likely your child to I'll get hurt crossing the road than on a bike

Erm no. That's not how stats work. Statistically there are WAY more kids crossing roads & in cars. So of COURSE the numbers will be higher!

This thread is so weird. Far more people should get out of their cars, this is obvious. Attacking cyclists is just a really irrational position.

Agree we need more infrastructure investment.

But every cyclist is overall making the world cleaner and safer, and every driver makes the world dirtier and more dangerous.

[quote RubySlippers123]@00100001

125 people died in the roads in London, of which 68 were pedestrians.
5 people died in a bike.

Basically its far nor likely your child to I'll get hurt crossing the road than on a bike

Erm no. That's not how stats work. Statistically there are WAY more kids crossing roads & in cars. So of COURSE the numbers will be higher! [/quote]
But what matters is the statistic likelihood of something happening.

Those of you driving on motorways rather than getting the train clearly do not care about your children, because you are choosing to put them at increased risk.

I'm amazed by this thread. I love cycling down to the nearest woods with my DC in the seat on the back, or taking them to nursery or the playpark. I had no idea people were looking at me and thinking "What a bad mother".