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Original poster

To think this is so unsafe…

381 replies

MyBadHabitsLeadToYou · 30/08/2021 18:51

Parents with toddlers on the back of the bike, cycling on busy city roads with the buses and the crazy drivers.

Howwww is this legal?! When the rules on car seats are so strict.

And don’t even start me on those flimsy trailer things that are so low down they couldn’t be seen from a large car.

Am I missing something??

OP posts:
Frazzled2207 · 31/08/2021 10:54

@CounsellorTroi

It’s the traffic fumes being inhaled that I would be worried about. Fine if you as a adult want to take that risk but a toddler can’t make that choice.
as a pp said upthread and posted an article fumes are just as bad sat in the back seat of a car.
downinthedoldrums · 31/08/2021 10:54

@Berkeys

The Dutch and Danes do this all the time, it is expected and normal. What isn’t normal is the UK’s shitty cycling provision and appalling driving. Hth.
Yes, the problem isn't the cyclists is the widespread general lack of cycling infrastructure in the UK. Very few cycle lanes in most town, very few shared use pedestrian/cyclist (slow cyclist not road racers) pavements.

This is what the UK desperately needs for its fitness and to reduce the cars on the road making local journeys.

LaMadrilena · 31/08/2021 10:56

I hate seeing those seats. I saw a bike fall over with a child in one once, when the mum got off. Horrible.

Pigeonpocket · 31/08/2021 11:10

I think they're dangerous. I wouldn't cycle on roads with them, but I would on cycle highways etc.

Yes we need more cycling infrastructure. But saying the problem is car drivers is kind of missing the point. The problem with burglaries is the burglars but you still lock your doors. Child seats on bikes need to be made safer until the right infrastructure for safe cycling exists.

Cornishmumofone · 31/08/2021 11:16

I happily cycled to and from preschool with DD from when she was 1 until recently. She always wore a helmet in her trailer which has a roll cage. She now cycles behind me on a FollowMe tandem (a link that attaches her 20" bike to mine).

I live 2 miles from work (which is next door to the nursery I use). I'm not eligible for a parking permit because I live too close and can't walk as I have to visit other campuses during the working day. (I used to cycle up to 10 miles a day going between campuses). I could catch buses between the sites, but this would waste a lot of time and make my life more stressful.

Most of my journey is on quiet residential roads. There is a short section on main roads but at 'rush hour' they're usually filled with slow moving traffic.

When DD starts school, we'll be cycling 5km there each day. If I didn't do this, I wouldn't be able to get to work on time as the traffic is horrendous (I can take some short-cuts that are not available to cars and can also pass the cars by using the cycle lane).

I feel happy with the decisions I've made and know that I'm helping DD to live a happy and healthy lifestyle.

TwigTheWonderKid · 31/08/2021 11:31

@Berkeys

Also, if you’re driving a polluting ICE car you are also killing children. Just slowly and invisibly.
^ this. But no one seems to want to accept that inconvenient truth.
00100001 · 31/08/2021 11:37

@LaMadrilena

I hate seeing those seats. I saw a bike fall over with a child in one once, when the mum got off. Horrible.
Not as horrible as a child being crushed to death in car accident, I'm sure.
LaMadrilena · 31/08/2021 11:46

I've been yards from someone (not a child, admittedly) who was crushed in a car accident and had to call the ambulance, and you're right, that was worse. Very perceptive of you. Not sure how it makes my previous observation wrong though.

LozzaChops101 · 31/08/2021 11:46

Why are people obsessing about fumes on a bike when sitting in your fumey hot box in traffic is proven to be so much worse?

Attictroll · 31/08/2021 11:48

I hate seeing this... i am torn between thinking they are careless parents or that they are part of that lucky group who think they are invincible because nothing bad has every really happened in their world.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 11:49

@LozzaChops101

Why are people obsessing about fumes on a bike when sitting in your fumey hot box in traffic is proven to be so much worse?
Yes, people like to pretend the air inside their car is somehow different to the air just outside their car!

Given cycling is much faster than driving where I live, it is much healthier to cycle.

Plus the risk of death/illness from being unhealthy generally is higher in car drivers than in cyclists.

DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 11:52

Also, if you’re driving a polluting ICE car you are also killing children. Just slowly and invisibly
Actually any car - an electric car is just moving the pollution to the power station - and until we are 100% green energy that has emissions too. Electric cars also have particulate emissions.
BUT
That statement is a bit of stupid over-simplification - the cars in sparsely populated areas aren't killing people, it's the ones in busy large cities.

TwigTheWonderKid · 31/08/2021 12:05

@DynamoKev

Also, if you’re driving a polluting ICE car you are also killing children. Just slowly and invisibly Actually any car - an electric car is just moving the pollution to the power station - and until we are 100% green energy that has emissions too. Electric cars also have particulate emissions. BUT That statement is a bit of stupid over-simplification - the cars in sparsely populated areas aren't killing people, it's the ones in busy large cities.
Whilst it may be an oversimplification as not all people live in cities, it is very much a truth to those who do and therefore shouldn't be so easily dismissed.

As well as being responsible for 29% of all new cases of asthma, pollution has also been linked to miscarriage, stillbirth and premature birth, teenage psychotic episodes, cancer, asthma, stroke and heart disease, diabetes, obesity, age related macular degeneration and changes linked to dementia. I know that not all pollution is caused by cars but it doesn't make any if that any less true, or any reason why we shouldn't be looking hard at our dependence on car use and how we can change.

HeronLanyon · 31/08/2021 12:16

In a perfect and very different world I’d think they are fab and I’d use one myself if I had young kids.
In a perfect world. Think women could walk where they like at what time they like without fear etc.
But as things are when i see them I really fear for the kids and also kind of admire the parents who are part of making the change. I just think the children are so vulnérables a huge risk and not sure it is one I would take. Complicated.

MinnieMountain · 31/08/2021 13:44

It’s one of many risk assessments we make as parents.

We don’t have a car. DS has been on bike seats since he was old enough. We have a Dutch one that fits him now he’s 7-mainly for longer journeys .

mswales · 31/08/2021 13:55

@MrsSkylerWhite

they're At exhaust height. So are buggies, pushchairs and small kids walking. Shall we ban them too?“

Buggies, pushchairs and small kids walking tend not to stand directly behind idling engines at traffic lights.

Neither do bikes, they go in front! And as a million posters have pointed out, children sitting inside cars are exposed to higher levels of pollution than children sitting on the back of bikes.
Abraxan · 31/08/2021 14:06

@LaurieFairyCake

Well in the city no ones really going faster than 10 miles an hour (it's 3.4 miles an hour average in London) whereas car seats are to cover the country on motorways I guess
I can assure you that in the roads in the city I live in people are definitely driving faster than 10 mile an hour, especially outside of the very centre itself.
Abraxan · 31/08/2021 14:10

@LaurieFairyCake

I've never heard of anyone getting hurt in these trailer or bike seats either
Only this weekend I saw a child hurt after their parent's bike, on which their seat was mounted, fell. Parent misjudged some banking on the side of the trail, cycling pretty fast though not road speeds. Bike came down. Child landed on their side along with the bike. Luckily was in a helmet but still had grazing and cuts down their cheek and arm. Child was very upset and clearly hurt. Luckily it wasn't faster, or on a busy road.
mswales · 31/08/2021 14:10

Soooooo frustrating that all these posters saying how dangerous it is are just assuming, based on nothing but their own opinion. What happened to actually looking at evidence in order to assess risk????
Here are some stats based on government data:

  • There are around 10.5 million cycle trips for every cyclist fatality.
  • The general risk of injury of any severity whilst cycling is just 0.045 per 1,000 hours of cycling.
  • Car occupants continue to account for the largest proportion of casualties of all severities

Have anyone in this thread ever heard of a child killed or seriously in a bike seat? I think we would hear about it if this was happening!

(www.cyclinguk.org/statistics citing www.gov.uk/government/collections/road-accidents-and-safety-statistics and www.gov.uk/government/collections/road-traffic-statistics)

DoraDont · 31/08/2021 15:35

My child's been travelling on the back of my bike, or her father's bike, since she was 6 months old. She's almost seven and still cadges a backie when she can. We live in zone 3 and I've cycled through Central London with her regularly for the past 6 years.

Cyclists just aren't the irresponsible risk takers you're implying. You are far more likely to be injured or killed as a pedestrian, why don't you start a thread about how nobody should walk their kids anywhere ever, just in case...

If everyone who was physically capable rode a bike instead of using their cars for short unnecessary journeys, think how pleasant it would be. Less pollution, better cycle infrastructure, quieter roads, healthier population.

This country is batshit about cyclists, try going to the Netherlands or Denmark with this attitude.

liveforsummer · 31/08/2021 16:24

This country is batshit about cyclists, try going to the Netherlands or Denmark with this attitude.

Have you ever been to Denmark or the Netherlands and seen the roads and infrastructure there. Not comparable.

cherish123 · 31/08/2021 17:23

Agrees

Waferbiscuit · 31/08/2021 17:27

Haven't RTFT but really support that cycling with a child SHOULD be okay but I no longer trust drivers and to me the roads are just too busy to be safe.

Plus 10 years ago my ex saw a collision between a car and a cyclist with baby in a childseat. It was a quiet road and the car wasn't going fast but the force of the collision meant the cyclist flew off, away from the bike, and the bike went under the car with baby still attached. Ex is still traumatized by the sound of the dad screaming for his child and trying to help, with a number of passerbys, get the baby/bike out from under the car.

So now I just won't do it.

Margerine78 · 31/08/2021 17:37

I'm a new driver and was a cyclists (inner city) for decades before so see both sides of the driver/biker divide but I agree, those things are terrifying. My mum did it with us when we were kids but in country lanes, no cars.

Localocal · 31/08/2021 17:52

I have tried pretty much every type of kid carrier out there - front seats, back seats, trailers. For a long time I had both a front and a back seat and carried two kids at a time. The safest IMO is the front seat, where the child is inside your centre of gravity and you can see them. It's more enjoyable for them too as they get a nice view and can talk to you.

The Leco type seat also serves a much larger child than the toddler seats. You can put a ten year old on one in a pinch.

I would not have been happy to ride in heavy traffic, though. I rode in the suburbs, and where I felt the roads weren't safe I either walked the bike (town centres) or rode on the pavement - at a very careful and modest pace - serenely oblivious to anyone who might give me a dirty look.

The trailers are heavy and unwieldy and did not feel safe to me, but safety is often counter-intuitive, so if someone has evidence that they are safer I would be interested to see it.