To think the judge overstepped by removing mothers parenting time due to vaccine status...

[samyeagar]

I used to be on the fence about vaccine mandates and passports, but after this, not any more.

www.newsweek.com/mother-vaccine-parental-rights-judge-chicago-1623942

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/08/30/chicago-judge-rules-mom-cant-see-son-not-vaccinated/5647445001/

I used to be one of those people who would dismiss slippery slope arguments as they are usually scare mongering and baseless, but after this...not any more.

I have been vaccinated myself, and wish more people would be, but at the same time, the black and white extreme polarization and politicization of covid-19 has just gotten so far out of hand.

For those not wanting to click on the links, the summary is that a divorced couple with an 11 year old child, shared custody had a child support and expense hearing. During the hearing, the judge inquired as to the mothers covid vaccine status. The mother indicated she was un vaccinated due to past adverse reactions, and her doctor had advised against her receiving the vaccine. The judge then revoked the mothers parenting time until such time as she became vaccinated. The issue of parenting time, covid vaccine was not actually brought before the court by either party. The judge did that of his own volition.

No doubt this will be over turned on appeal, but the fact that it even happened in the first place is very ominous. Even more so that reading through comment sections across multiple sites carrying this story, the sheer number of people who are cheering and applauding this judge is really eye opening.

I'm quite alarmed that 25% think you are being unreasonable OP. Covid has deluded people. It goes to show how people nowadays are really not any better than the subjects of past regimes who allowed themselves to be caught up in manufactured fear and hatred "for the greater good", and we need to be aware of that if history is not to be repeated.

A mother being unvaccinated for health reasons should have absolutely no bearing on her ability to care for her child.

I can see you feel strongly User1745.

Which past regimes are you thinking of?

Any past regime where people were encouraged to lump an excessive amount of blame for any societal ill, or to generally despise, a particular group of people, or to view a particular group as social traitors. There's no need to name one because it detracts from the point if people think I'm comparing vaccination campaigns to such and such a regime, when I'm not (I'm pro vaccination, but I also don't believe in scapegoating people with concerns or worries or reasons they aren't vaccinated). The point is that human psychology is very easily manipulated and it doesn't change.

One thing I have found is that the general attitudes, though different ways of expressing them, that general attitudes towards the whole covid-19 pandemic are not all that different between the USA and UK

I don’t know, I think attitudes are pretty different actually.

Hard to put my finger on why exactly, but the US has seemed polarised between MAGA “covid isn’t real” types, and on the other hand people wearing masks when they are by themselves on empty hiking trails/refusing to speak to unvaccinated people etc which goes way beyond what people in the UK ever thought were reasonable precautions.

I’m active on a couple of US boards and they seem much more dogmatic than we are over here. It is like a badge of identity in a way that it just isn’t here.

Well.

We are where we are.

I see.

You don't think the rise of the far right in many countries, and the resurgence of religious fundamentalism/oppressive laws of more than one religion around the world. Is a better use of that observation on how people can be manipulated?

I've not met anyone who gives the slightest toss about this vaccine stuff irl. No one gives a fuck.

The government enjoyed using it as a diversion from other cock ups sure. But they are opening everything up. Because they are interested in the economy.

You say there is in the UK (?) a big social push to other unvaccinated people. And allude to lest we forget (and most get that reference).

Is your feeling on this proportionate? Given everything going on in the world. And in the UK. ?

Change changy made me remember.

It's a right left type thing in USA isn't it? Mainly?

Like the trump petite people were guns no masks etc etc

?

@NiceGerbil I think so - Trump recently got booed at a rally for admitting he had been vaccinated, and then on the other side I read Democrat voters on Metafilter etc saying they have gone NC with friends and family members who aren’t vaccinated, people on AskaManager asking how to get their boss to sack unvaccinated coworkers, etc etc which just seems loopy to UK ears.

It's a totally different thing to here.

There's all these 'wedge' issues in the USA and the massive differences around the country in terms of what the different states do.

Abortion
Guns
Situation with prisons and I'm guessing death sentence
Child marriage
I don't know probably loads.

It's all this what were they called. The ones who attacked the govt building. Yay guns freedom etc. Guessing they'd see vaccines as infringement of freedom? Same as masks.

I haven't seen this story apart from on here so if it's gone global I'm not sure that means mainstream front pages. Afghanistan is surely pushing everything else back let alone this. A random retracted judgement on one situation in a different country?

And using the lest we forget phrase is very... I mean it's just ridiculous.

USA set up is risky different as well in terms of healthcare.

Not sure how they are keeping track of who has been invited etc. Is access good everywhere? It's free for everyone? I mean I have no idea.

I have zero concerns about the UK starting to treat unvaccinated people as pariahs.

Interestingly some of DS’s nursery parents are in France at the minute, and it seems like they are way more militant about it over there! They apparently had to show their covid vaccine certificate to get into cafes, museums, supermarkets the lot.

Interesting but I suppose not surprising. They have a different view on this sort of thing again.
More of a focus on upholding French values and what not? Not French sorry just thinking about the clothes law and religious symbols in school and etc.