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Original poster

To think the judge overstepped by removing mothers parenting time due to vaccine status...

63 replies

samyeagar · 30/08/2021 16:27

I used to be on the fence about vaccine mandates and passports, but after this, not any more.

www.newsweek.com/mother-vaccine-parental-rights-judge-chicago-1623942

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/08/30/chicago-judge-rules-mom-cant-see-son-not-vaccinated/5647445001/

I used to be one of those people who would dismiss slippery slope arguments as they are usually scare mongering and baseless, but after this...not any more.

I have been vaccinated myself, and wish more people would be, but at the same time, the black and white extreme polarization and politicization of covid-19 has just gotten so far out of hand.

For those not wanting to click on the links, the summary is that a divorced couple with an 11 year old child, shared custody had a child support and expense hearing. During the hearing, the judge inquired as to the mothers covid vaccine status. The mother indicated she was un vaccinated due to past adverse reactions, and her doctor had advised against her receiving the vaccine. The judge then revoked the mothers parenting time until such time as she became vaccinated. The issue of parenting time, covid vaccine was not actually brought before the court by either party. The judge did that of his own volition.

No doubt this will be over turned on appeal, but the fact that it even happened in the first place is very ominous. Even more so that reading through comment sections across multiple sites carrying this story, the sheer number of people who are cheering and applauding this judge is really eye opening.

OP posts:
Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 19:31

@Awalkintime

In America there are lots of extreme examples of misogyny,. I fear this is one of them, absolutely bugger all to do with the vax more about controlling women. If it hadn't been the vax they would've found something else.
Nah, not this one. In Illinois, while the language is unbiased, the application of family court law tends far more towards the mother, which makes this all the more shocking. This was just flat out a judge using the bench to enforce his personal views.
OP posts:
Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 19:36

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

The Cook County judge who barred a divorced Pilsen mother from seeing her 11-year-old son earlier this month because she’s not vaccinated against COVID-19 revoked that order Monday morning.

Judge James Shapiro issued a one-paragraph order Monday vacating a portion of his Aug. 11 order that had barred Rebecca Firlit from seeing her 11-year-old son until she showed proof to the court that she was vaccinated against COVID-19.

Oh, good to see that. Trying to slow down the firestorm, and cover his ass. Trying to keep himself from being disbarred. Too late though because now, this has opened the flood gates...

Jeffrey Leving, attorney for Firlit’s ex-husband Matthew Duiven, called the judge’s decision “unfortunate.”

“I am working on an emergency motion right now to fight it,” Leving said Monday.

“I know that they are going to say that I’m an endangerment to my son,” Firlit said. “This isn’t over for me.”

That Judge has really set something very dangerous in motion.

OP posts:
Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 19:41

This was dog whistling at it's finest. Regardless of his own disingenuous retraction, this judge just sent the message out far and wide to everyone sharing custody to weaponize vaccine status ...

OP posts:
GeorgiaGirl52 · 30/08/2021 20:05

The big difference is - this made the papers worldwide. In America the Awful our child and family courts are open. Parents are represented by lawyers and reporters are allowed to report events like this. Also, judicial decisions can be appealed and overturned. (I am sure that will be in the news in about two months!) If this had happened in a family court in Britain would you have heard of it?

GeorgiaMcGraw · 30/08/2021 20:16

The judge was massively in the wrong. Her vaccination status has nothing to do with parenting. It is cult-like, controlling, evil. Completely ideological and not for the child's benefit.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/08/2021 20:20

What’s the child’s medical status?

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 20:20

@GeorgiaGirl52

The big difference is - this made the papers worldwide. In America the Awful our child and family courts are open. Parents are represented by lawyers and reporters are allowed to report events like this. Also, judicial decisions can be appealed and overturned. (I am sure that will be in the news in about two months!) If this had happened in a family court in Britain would you have heard of it?
I think the most ominous part in all of this, the part we need to be very mindful of, is the fact that the current social and political environment gave this judge a high enough level of comfort and enabled him to make a ruling such as this. And that a not insignificant number of people thought it was a great decision.
OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 20:26

Some USA court decisions in general are very peculiar to UK people.

Write to your local equivalent of MP? Not sure how things work there.

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 20:35

@NiceGerbil

Some USA court decisions in general are very peculiar to UK people.

Write to your local equivalent of MP? Not sure how things work there.

In fairness, this one was pretty peculiar, even by American standards. Hell, it even caught the fathers attorney completely by surprise.
OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 20:40

If the system is working then appeal should reverse and if it's around the world then more so.

She can't be vaccinated so this happens? Fucking outrageous.

NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 20:42

Well not really because no one in their right minds things those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons should be barred from xyz etc.

I mean any but a tiny minority of people would think that was utterly ridiculous.

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 21:02

@NiceGerbil

If the system is working then appeal should reverse and if it's around the world then more so.

She can't be vaccinated so this happens? Fucking outrageous.

After this blew up over the weekend, the judge has just today vacated this part of his own ruling, which is good, but the fact that this even happened in the first place, and that there are a lot of people applauding it, should send out a clear warning to people of exactly where things are going.

No, I was on the fence with regards to how far down the vaccine passports and mandate road we should go, but this is really eye opening. This wasn't some theoretical what if slippery slope. This actually happened in the name of "the greater good" This is an actual case, actual proof that the idea of mandates can be too easily abused.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 21:32

It's one judge who made a bonkers decision which was quickly withdrawn in (for most on the thread) a different country.

So no I'm not worried at all.

NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 21:33

It didn't happen in the name of the greater good. If it had she'd have been put under house arrest.

NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 21:33

Iyswim.

AlternativePerspective · 30/08/2021 21:38

This is a non thread.

Firstly, the judge has reversed the ruling.

Secondly, it’s in the U.S. so entirely not relevant here.

Now go and whip u[ your conspiracy crap elsewhere.

AlternativePerspective · 30/08/2021 21:38

Your

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 21:40

@AlternativePerspective

This is a non thread.

Firstly, the judge has reversed the ruling.

Secondly, it’s in the U.S. so entirely not relevant here.

Now go and whip u[ your conspiracy crap elsewhere.

What conspiracy crap?
OP posts:
AlternativePerspective · 30/08/2021 21:44

You’re clearly here just to scare monger.

You didn’t make any reference to this having happened in the US, given this is a UK site predominantly visited by people from the UK, your subject heading stated that a judge had removed a parent’s contact time due to non vaccination. Nowhere did you make reference to this having happened in the US, people had to read the article to know that.

Anyone reading the OP without reading the article could easily be led to think that this sort of thing is starting to happen in the UK.

It is blatantly obvious that this thread is designed to whip up hysteria over here when none is needed.

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 21:47

@NiceGerbil

It's one judge who made a bonkers decision which was quickly withdrawn in (for most on the thread) a different country.

So no I'm not worried at all.

Yes, it was in a different country, however, USA is discussed quite frequently here.

Quickly withdrawn...well, the decision stood for 19 days, and was only vacated this morning, after this story went global over the weekend. Not exactly quick, or really anything more than trying to cover his ass and avoid being disbarred.

The thing is, now there was a suit filed requesting that the vacated part be unvcated.

Utter madness that this even happened in the first place, that the judge felt comfortable issuing such a ruling on a matter that wasn't even in front of the court.

This case was and is being watched very closely, and you'd better believe that at least in the USA, vaccination status will be weaponized in the family courts, and this judge opened that door.

OP posts:
OnlyFantastic · 30/08/2021 21:51

I think the most ominous part in all of this, the part we need to be very mindful of, is the fact that the current social and political environment gave this judge a high enough level of comfort and enabled him to make a ruling such as this

This exactly. The fact that the arsehole judge was clearly slapped upside the head by a superior and quickly reversed the ruling kind of isn't the point.

The fact that he felt able to make such a decision in the first place is bloody frightening.

AlternativePerspective · 30/08/2021 21:54

If the title had been “a judge in the US has removed a mother’s parental contact for not being vaccinated,” people could have had an actual discussion about it.

Instead the thread asked if she was unreasonable for thinking the judge had done this, no reference to the US, then went on to say how she had thought this wouldn’t ever happen,(no mention of the US,) and now she’s more afraid that it will…

As this hasn’t happened in the UK there is no discussion to be had, because there is no mention of the US in the thread, and given this isn’t happening in the UK it’s not something which needs to be talked about in a “we should all be scared” kind of way.

NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 21:55

I watch C4 and been news, newsnight, sometimes sky news and Al Jazeera and this is the first I've heard of it!

Most focus is on Afghanistan at the moment for obvious reasons.

And the Paralympics which is pretty cool imo!

Original poster
samyeagar · 30/08/2021 21:59

@AlternativePerspective

You’re clearly here just to scare monger.

You didn’t make any reference to this having happened in the US, given this is a UK site predominantly visited by people from the UK, your subject heading stated that a judge had removed a parent’s contact time due to non vaccination. Nowhere did you make reference to this having happened in the US, people had to read the article to know that.

Anyone reading the OP without reading the article could easily be led to think that this sort of thing is starting to happen in the UK.

It is blatantly obvious that this thread is designed to whip up hysteria over here when none is needed.

Point taken that I should have specified that this happened in the USA. One of the links does actually say Chicago in it, but still point taken as that was not obvious.

So, my conspiracy theory was not explicitly stating that this occurred in the USA.

One thing I have found is that the general attitudes, though different ways of expressing them, that general attitudes towards the whole covid-19 pandemic are not all that different between the USA and UK. Both sides of the pond have their own fair share of absurdities that really aren't all that different, and to think that the direction one goes could never happen in the other...

I was fairly early in the vaccine uptake here, double jabbed as soon as I could be, well before it became a requirement for my employment. Same with my wife. So I am hardly anti vax, or a conspiracy theorist.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 21:59

I alluded to this earlier OP but fact is USA is a very different country and with many things that seem awful / baffling to us in UK.

So you know. USA things seem bonkers to many here a lot of the time. It's not our culture so not surprising really.

What is your ACTUAL point?

And our family courts have their own issues tbh and it's not this.