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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not pay the childminder

255 replies

Surelyunsure21 · 28/08/2021 23:20

Hi all,

I am hoping to get some advice on a very tricky situation. DP and I have always seemed to find it impossible to find good reliable childcare and as a result we have bit the bullet and put both our DC (aged nearly 3 years old and 18 months) in nursery over 3 days. They are due to start next week which is lucky as I start a new job on Tuesday, it is my dream job so I don’t want anything to mess it up.

Previously to this we have had a childminder for the last 10-11 months however she is highly unreliable.. DP started a new job in February and he was hoping to pass his probationary period this month.. since May the childminder has been incredibly unreliable to the point where on the days where he is working from home he ends up looking after the children, in between working. His job is a lot more flexible for this.. my previous job was in a contact centre so it impossible to even grab a drink when it was not scheduled.

The childminders excuses were always legitimate and obviously there would be no payment for the days they didn’t do but we didn’t mind paying.. we’d rather have smooth childcare than none. The one issue with payment and it was a little something was that they insisted on getting paid for bank holidays even if we didn’t need to send the children (which we didn’t) and if we wanted or needed too it was double fee. We never sent them but we just thought the whole process was ridiculous.

So long story short the childminder has been that unreliable in the last few months that it nearly cost my OH his job. They have chosen to extend it for 3 months but he cannot work from home anymore and he basically doesn’t get any privileges for 3 months (it’s better than being fired though)

I’m due to start a new job and he’s in a probationary which should have ended and we’ve just put our house on the market too sell and move closer to my new job so obviously cannot afford for anything to screw it up. I sat down with OH and we rang a few nurseries in our new area and one had space to take them from next week so we signed them up and paid the deposit.

We then text the childminder to advise them that we would not be requiring their services any longer as they have been so unreliable they have nearly cost my OH his job and that as a result of this we would not be returning them in September and we would not be paying anymore money.

OP posts:
Boredhimtodeath · 30/08/2021 18:03

Please leave an honest public review of her business so others don’t find themselves in the same situation with her.

Bellee11 · 30/08/2021 18:17

Clearly she has not been providing the agreed service. It's very cheeky to expect 4 weeks to be paid as when she has not been providing the contracted hours for months.

Offer 38% and state it can be taken from the amount owed. If she makes a legal claim (unlikely) say you will have no choice but to counter claim for breech of contract. She hasn't delivered her side of the contract with would probably make her legal claim void.

MyLamaDontLikeYou · 30/08/2021 18:17

@Boredhimtodeath

Please leave an honest public review of her business so others don’t find themselves in the same situation with her.
^ I came here to say this too.
YDBear · 30/08/2021 18:18

Don't pay. Why should you? As for the threat of taking you to court, let her. Probably 99% of threats to "take people to court" are never followed up because nobody wants to face the costs. Basically, she treated you shamefully and is an obvious chancer and the attempt to extort another month's pay just typical of the brass face which chancers have.

AlmostSummer21 · 30/08/2021 18:27

@AdultingAvoidance

Sad tale but n excellent example of nursery care over childminders. You get what you pay for sadly.
Rubbish
tinks29 · 30/08/2021 18:37

Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, unless a solicitor has drawn them up and witnessed you both signing to them.

OP - She won’t take you to court. It would actually cost her money to do that, not to mention the time and hassle of it all.

Just explain that she didn’t provide the service to what she agreed to, and that you won’t be paying her what she is demanding. As a good Will gesture, perhaps pay for the bank holiday stuff, and leave it as that.

Plumbuddle · 30/08/2021 18:45

@RandomMess

I completely understand where you are coming from. However I would offer her 2 weeks paid notice as a "goodwill gesture" although perhaps you could offer her 38% of 4 weeks as a starting point...

How much do you really want this to go to small claims court?

Are the DC going to nursery full time? If not use some of the 4 weeks notice with childminder as they settle into the nursery?

Please don't leave your children with someone you're in a dispute with! Shock
girasol · 30/08/2021 18:47

@tinks29

Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, unless a solicitor has drawn them up and witnessed you both signing to them.

OP - She won’t take you to court. It would actually cost her money to do that, not to mention the time and hassle of it all.

Just explain that she didn’t provide the service to what she agreed to, and that you won’t be paying her what she is demanding. As a good Will gesture, perhaps pay for the bank holiday stuff, and leave it as that.

“ Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, unless a solicitor has drawn them up and witnessed you both signing to them.”

This is not true.

(I am a solicitor).

Maggiejardine · 30/08/2021 18:51

If you’re sure of your ground you could allow it to go to court and defend the action but also be ready with a counter claim of what you calculate she owes you. If you inform her of your intentions she may decide it’s not worth risking as the sums owed by each of you would potentially cancel each other out. Hope future child care works out.

IAteTheLastOne · 30/08/2021 18:54

@ForTheDIR

I sort of get you OP, but it’s pretty standard to pay childminders for bank holidays. In fact your new nursery will probably charge you.

How about I ask you this? Do you get paid for bank holidays? Does your husband? Why do you think your childminder is not entitled to be paid in the same fashion?

My nursery does not charge for bank holidays, and I’ve not heard of one that does?
Musmerian · 30/08/2021 19:07

@AdultingAvoidance

Sad tale but n excellent example of nursery care over childminders. You get what you pay for sadly.
That’s a really sweeping statement. All my three went to childminders and personally I prefer it to the rigidity of a nursery often staffed by young inexperienced staff.
EL8888 · 30/08/2021 19:23

Only 38% Shock That’s impressive. I would only pay what she had actually done and go for alternative options. She sounds like a joke

mobear · 30/08/2021 19:26

Your DH getting in trouble at work has nothing to do with your contract with her. I would suggest her non-performance lead to a repudiatory breach of contract and therefore you are not bound by the contractual notice period. Using proper legal terms might get her to back off.

pollymere · 30/08/2021 19:27

I would write and ask for a refund on the days you couldn't have (the 62%). Detail the exact days in the letter. Then put down how much is owing in lieu of notice. I would suspect they owe you money. Detail in the letter how much they owe you and give them thirty days for your refund. You will find that any threats of small claims and breach of contract will disappear as no lawyer will take a case with a letter like that in their possession.

endingintiers · 30/08/2021 19:27

@Surelyunsure21

Hi everyone so I’ve spoken to my DP this morning and we’ve rung my mum for advice and we have agreed that we will pay the fee minus the 4 days as we are desperate to move ready for our oldest starting school and we want to be near family so we don’t want anything to risk the moving aspect of our life.

I’m not happy about it but I feel have a duty to continue building a better life for my children and at the end of the day my DP still has his job and we’ve managed to find a better setting which has space for both of them on the days we need them to too

Sounds like a very sensible decision, if a frustrating one. So glad you've managed to secure more reliable childcare, and with new job and imminent move the stress of a possible claim would IMO not be worth it. Best of luck with it all.
nannykatherine · 30/08/2021 19:32

If you can find a fabulous nanny get one
All your problems solved

Bard6817 · 30/08/2021 20:00

It’s all about the contract.

If there is a gross misconduct or termination for breach clause, use that instead. If there’s not, then you are stuck with the notice period.

Whether it’s employment or small claims court, it’ll work out costly to defend and if you aren’t honouring the clauses, it’s a hard position to argue.

LoisLane66 · 30/08/2021 20:03

Very late to the thread but having now read ALL the comments, I'm annoyed on behalf of the OP.
Is she a registered childminder?
Why no bills or receipts?
Were the other parents fobbed off with the same excuses on the same days?

I think she had the OP's measure as far as pushing her for payment etc. She paid because it was wearing her down and that's what the childminder hoped for.
Has she gone through the same scenario with the other parents re back payments for days not fulfilled at very short notice due to her excuses?
I'd want to ask those parents a few indirect questions because if the CM hasn't done exactly the same thing with the others, then she is lying to the OP.
If you have no hot water and cancel 2 children then ALL must be cancelled IYSWIM.
I'd also want to know about her insurance and whether her income is declared.
When she last had an inspection from the local authority and I'd want to see the certificate.
I'm sorry to read that the OP felt she had no other option but to pay and end the argument.
It would stick in my craw to let the CF treat me like that.

saffy2 · 30/08/2021 21:10

You signed a contract. Presumably with a notice period. You are liable for that notice period irrespective of anything that has happened previously.
She can legally take you to the small claims court of she wishes and if your signature is on a contract stating you will pay a notice period she will win. I doubt she would do that, most of us Childminder’s lose a lot of money this way and don’t chase it due to the upset. But legally, she could and she would win.
You are being unreasonable to not pay your legally obligated notice period that you agreed to in writing.

saffy2 · 30/08/2021 21:14

Also I’m a childminder. I charge bank holidays in exactly the same way. As does every other childminder I know.
But it’s not at all relevant what anyone else
Does. You signed a contract in which it specifies she charges bank holidays. You are again as I said above legally obligated to pay them as charged.
Why sign the contract if you want to moan about them being legally obligated to follow it?! Contracts are legally binding. And childminders use them to protect themselves from parents like you quite frankly 🤷🏽‍♀️

NumberTheory · 30/08/2021 21:19

@saffy2

You signed a contract. Presumably with a notice period. You are liable for that notice period irrespective of anything that has happened previously. She can legally take you to the small claims court of she wishes and if your signature is on a contract stating you will pay a notice period she will win. I doubt she would do that, most of us Childminder’s lose a lot of money this way and don’t chase it due to the upset. But legally, she could and she would win. You are being unreasonable to not pay your legally obligated notice period that you agreed to in writing.
It is not true that you are always held to a notice period regardless of what has happened up to that point. Not everything written into a contract will be upheld by a court in all circumstances.

If the court agrees that providing 38% of contracted days is itself unreasonable and a breach of the contract it would not necessarily hold the OP to fulfilling the notice period.

saffy2 · 30/08/2021 21:19

Also if she’s ill she can’t work (EYFS requirement for the health and safety of
The children). Bath leak- If
The setting is dangerous for children she can’t work (Ofsted requirement for the safety of the children). Boiler - I’d there’s no water etc she can’t work (Ofsted have a say in this too).
Covid - she legally can’t work.

I can’t believe the poll is so many people saying YANBU. Everything you’ve said so far is pretty much totally unreasonable 🙈

saffy2 · 30/08/2021 21:21

The time taken off is not unreasonable and is all valid, as the op herself has told us. She’s given us the reasons. They are all valid and reasonable and legitimate and most taken out of the childminders hands.
She would win if this went to court,
Especially if she has legal backing who can and will state the legal requirements for
A
Childminder to be open (which she will as we all do because of parents like this!)

saffy2 · 30/08/2021 21:29

Also nearly all childminders and absolutely all nurseries charge in advance. It’s the norm. And you signed a contact stating that was how you would pay.
She’s not ‘insisting’ on anything nor ‘demanding’ anything. She’s holding you to a legally binding contract that YOU signed willingly.

NumberTheory · 30/08/2021 21:40

It's not "time off". The childminder isn't employed. She is a business and has failed to deliver over 60% of the services she had presented as being available. The fact her reasons are "legitimate" do not mean her provision of service is reasonable.

As a business you have an obligation to do what is necessary to provide a service you have contracted to and if you fail to a court might well find you in breach of your contract.

If your building infrastructure is so poor that it is causing you to cancel on many occasions and you can't afford to improve it, you may just not be capable of delivering the contract you signed. If you have so much sickness in your household that you are unable to provide service a lot of the time, you may not be capable of delivering the contract you signed. While courts are quite understanding about occasional emergencies, or acts of god, they are obliged to look at how reasonable something is - and being unable to deliver on over half your contract is unlikely to be looked on favourably. You can't just push all that risk off onto your customer.