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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not pay the childminder

255 replies

Surelyunsure21 · 28/08/2021 23:20

Hi all,

I am hoping to get some advice on a very tricky situation. DP and I have always seemed to find it impossible to find good reliable childcare and as a result we have bit the bullet and put both our DC (aged nearly 3 years old and 18 months) in nursery over 3 days. They are due to start next week which is lucky as I start a new job on Tuesday, it is my dream job so I don’t want anything to mess it up.

Previously to this we have had a childminder for the last 10-11 months however she is highly unreliable.. DP started a new job in February and he was hoping to pass his probationary period this month.. since May the childminder has been incredibly unreliable to the point where on the days where he is working from home he ends up looking after the children, in between working. His job is a lot more flexible for this.. my previous job was in a contact centre so it impossible to even grab a drink when it was not scheduled.

The childminders excuses were always legitimate and obviously there would be no payment for the days they didn’t do but we didn’t mind paying.. we’d rather have smooth childcare than none. The one issue with payment and it was a little something was that they insisted on getting paid for bank holidays even if we didn’t need to send the children (which we didn’t) and if we wanted or needed too it was double fee. We never sent them but we just thought the whole process was ridiculous.

So long story short the childminder has been that unreliable in the last few months that it nearly cost my OH his job. They have chosen to extend it for 3 months but he cannot work from home anymore and he basically doesn’t get any privileges for 3 months (it’s better than being fired though)

I’m due to start a new job and he’s in a probationary which should have ended and we’ve just put our house on the market too sell and move closer to my new job so obviously cannot afford for anything to screw it up. I sat down with OH and we rang a few nurseries in our new area and one had space to take them from next week so we signed them up and paid the deposit.

We then text the childminder to advise them that we would not be requiring their services any longer as they have been so unreliable they have nearly cost my OH his job and that as a result of this we would not be returning them in September and we would not be paying anymore money.

OP posts:
Original poster
Surelyunsure21 · 29/08/2021 10:52

@privatehall I was at home in June and July because in my old role I worked from home 5 days a week.. my job doesn’t even give me time to grab a drink without it being scheduled, I was working in a contact centre so was constantly on the phone or web chat or emails to contractors, tenants and officers

OP posts:
ohthatbloodycat · 29/08/2021 10:52

She was supposed to provide a service, but didn't do so reliably. YANBU.

SausageRollFan · 29/08/2021 11:04

@DeadGood what part of my post told op she should immediately take legal action?

C8H10N4O2 · 29/08/2021 11:17

It’s a bit like if you was working, your boss sacked you without prior warning and you were left without a months pay

No its completely different - if you have a "boss" you presumably have an employment contract. The CM is providing (or failing to provide) a contracted service.

The question is whether or not its worth pursuing based on warnings from the OP based about CM's failure to deliver on their side of the contract. If the CM is as bad as described, then a series of parents feeling obligated to pay for nothing to get a more reliable service elsewhere is a nice little earner. Would you pay a builder in full who had failed to provide the specified service? If not why would you pay anyone else in that situation?

Bunnycat101 · 29/08/2021 11:31

I think there were two issues here:

Firstly she has been unreasonable and unreliable. However, does the 38% include or exclude your swaps? I think you just need to pay and be done with it.

Secondly, your husband has been really unwise and unreasonable trying to work around the children that often. You just can’t work with a 1 and 3yo. During lockdown my husband and I had to stagger childcare with work but came to that arrangement with our employers. You can’t just unilaterally decide to do childcare during working hours and there not be consequences to that. He is very lucky he hasn’t been sacked tbh.

PrivateHall · 29/08/2021 11:33

[quote Surelyunsure21]@privatehall I was at home in June and July because in my old role I worked from home 5 days a week.. my job doesn’t even give me time to grab a drink without it being scheduled, I was working in a contact centre so was constantly on the phone or web chat or emails to contractors, tenants and officers[/quote]
Your previous post said you were off sick at this time, not working from home? Anyway it doesn't really matter now, its sorted!

Tistheseason17 · 29/08/2021 11:36

It's not right as I think she was a CF - but I think you have done the best for you. Small claims court is time consuming and stressful and you have avoided this for a small sum.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 29/08/2021 11:37

From reading everything, OP - and I quite agree that your CM has been effing hopeless - I do think you need to be alive to the fact that your husband's probation has been extended independent of the childcare problems. He needs to concentrate on keeping that job.

ojss21 · 29/08/2021 12:04

once she text asking them to picked up before 5PM because the football match was on

😱 this has to be a joke. Might try that in office next time I fancy an early finish. See how far I get ....

Lady08 · 29/08/2021 12:11

@C8H10N4O2

It’s a bit like if you was working, your boss sacked you without prior warning and you were left without a months pay

No its completely different - if you have a "boss" you presumably have an employment contract. The CM is providing (or failing to provide) a contracted service.

The question is whether or not its worth pursuing based on warnings from the OP based about CM's failure to deliver on their side of the contract. If the CM is as bad as described, then a series of parents feeling obligated to pay for nothing to get a more reliable service elsewhere is a nice little earner. Would you pay a builder in full who had failed to provide the specified service? If not why would you pay anyone else in that situation?

It doesn’t matter! If she doesn’t pay the one months notice and the terms are set out in the contract, then she is liable to pay. The small claims court aren’t interested in anything else.
Allthehabum · 29/08/2021 12:16

It's not a crime to be sick, and if she was isolating because of Covid, that's not her fault either. Boilers are shitty things, and if she has one on the blink and has to wait at home for it to be fixed, there's not much she can do there either. As you say, her reasons are legitimate. It's shitty for you that she's been unable to provide a full service, but if you were genuinely sick, had a shitty boiler and had to isolate because of Covid, I imagine you'd be hoping that you would be supported by an understanding boss as well.

When I first read your post, I was on your side, but reading the details of it I can't help but think that you just sound like shitty employers. By all means, go with the nursery instead - you need reliable childcare. However, don't punish the woman for things that are outside of her control. If you do, you are being a horrible employer. If you make a contract with a childminder, you are the childminder's employer and responsibilities come with that. It sounds to me that you are trying to shirk those responsibilities to make your own financial situation easier, and that's not fair. You agreed to be an employer in the first place, so you need to step up to that.

drpet49 · 29/08/2021 12:47

@Allthehabum the OP isn’t an employer. Stop talking nonsense.

Viviennemary · 29/08/2021 12:56

Quite agree Althehabum is talking absolute nonsense. OP is not the childminders employer. She is paying for a service which she hasnt received for quite a significant portion of the contracted hours.

Original poster
Surelyunsure21 · 29/08/2021 12:57

@allthehabum we aren’t her employer! She is self employed.. also her setting is at her own house so if her boiler is on the blink she works at home 🙄 she has other peoples children so she is not a nanny.. she is a childminder who works from her own house.

OP posts:
ellyeth · 29/08/2021 13:22

I wouldn't pay her. It is she that has not honoured the contract by failing to do the hours she was contracted for and in so doing threatening your husband's job security.

Have you kept details of the times when she has not been available to do the hours for which she was contracted? Provided you have all the details, if she decided to take the matter to the small claims court (which I think is probably highly unlikely) I think the finding would be that, in the circumstances, you had no option but to seek other care for your children and to refuse to pay notice.

ellyeth · 29/08/2021 13:25

Sorry, I've just read more of the thread and see that you have decided to pay her. Hope everything works out for you and the family.

Original poster
Surelyunsure21 · 29/08/2021 15:58

@ellyeth thank you, the reason we paid for her is that we want to move on and put the bad experience behind us.

Yes we had a very detailed spreadsheet with all the days from May and it had the days she couldn’t do marked in red

OP posts:
Notcoolmum · 29/08/2021 16:49

Did you get paid for being off sick OP? How would you feel if your employers terminated you for this without giving you paid notice?

C8H10N4O2 · 29/08/2021 16:55

@Notcoolmum

Did you get paid for being off sick OP? How would you feel if your employers terminated you for this without giving you paid notice?
OP is not the CM's employer she is the customer who has received less than half the services that the CM contracted to deliver.
Original poster
Surelyunsure21 · 29/08/2021 16:55

@notcoolmum if you read the whole thread there was lots of other issues. She has not been sick for 38% of the contracted days but she has been off for numerous reasons since May.

OP posts:
IWentAwayIStayedAway · 29/08/2021 17:22

Risk the legal action. Very unlikely when you can prove she couldnt provide a service!

YouMeandtheSpew · 29/08/2021 17:54

I’m just reeling at 38%. I’m honestly amazed your husband hasn’t been sacked. Legitimate reasons or not, how the hell can anyone hold down a job with that level of reliability?

MrsScrubbithatescleaning · 30/08/2021 10:47

@copernicium

I'm a childminder. I've only ever taken one sick day - ironically from my covid vaccine. I wouldn't close for a broken boiler or a leak - I would give the parents the choice eg we are having a cold lunch, is that ok or do you want to collect? If they chose to collect, the would still need to pay as the offer of childcare is still there, even if it's not perfect. So if this is your experience, then I'm sorry, as people like this give childminders a bad name.

She's perfectly within her rights to ask for covid tests repeatedly or exclude otherwise. Please remember that this has bee a very stressful time for childminders, having multiple families in our homes during a time the whole country wasn't allowed to. If she's been closed for covid reasons, no one will argue this or call her unreliable for this, it's been a nightmare!

However, these things are all separate from the contractual last months notice fee. If she still owes you money from being closed in August, then by all means deduct this, but the notice still needs to be paid.

I've taken several families to small claims for not paying this, and won everytime, plus the family then has a CCJ.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!!

What a nasty person you are.

Stop making shite up to scare the OP and potentially other posters into paying an unnecessary bill.

The contract has been frustrated by the childminder on several occasions and the courts will take this into account.

‘He who must come to equity must come with clean hands’

Penistoe · 30/08/2021 11:06

Morally you are doing nothing wrong. Unfortunately legally you are in breach of contract.

You could get a letter drawn up from a solicitor saying you are claiming back x as she only worked 38%.

AnnieSnap · 30/08/2021 17:47

@SausageRollFan

If you breach the contract by not paying the notice period she will have a case against you and could well get that money plus costs back via court action. Equally if you think she's breached the contract, you can also take court action. You can't just not pay unfortunately.
I doubt it would go that far since the Childminder must know that she has been taking the piss. Also, if it did, the OP would have a strong defence by showing that the Childminder was in breach of contract.