To ask what would happen if blood test tubes runout

[Whocareswherewego76]

I know there is a shortage but what happens if they run our.

Would iron deficiencies be classed as non urgent does anyone know? Toddler Ds has very low iron and we’ve been on a supplement to see if it can rebuild his stores but due a check up blood test in a few weeks to see if there have been any changes - I haven’t heard it’s been cancelled yet but am wondering if it will go ahead now as I’m presuming non urgent as he’s outwArdly well and it was only picked up through blood tests for something else at another appointment

Blood donation will go ahead as it is urgent (does need some blood tubes alongside the big bag to test for infections, confirm blood group etc)

@CrankyFrankie @Hallomother Here is the document sent to GPs that specifies what will be regarded as urgent. They’re warned to expect this to last until mid-September. It does not include investigative tests (even for infants) or iron levels, THOUGH that may fall under condition 2 if on a medication to fix it (but probably not if he’s well in himself).

www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/B0933-bd-blood-collection-supply-disruption-v2.pdf

Tests that qualify as urgent:
1. Bloods that are required to facilitate a two week wait referral
2. Bloods that are extremely overdue and/or essential for safe prescribing of medication or monitoring of condition
3. Bloods that if taken could avoid a hospital admission or prevent an onward referral
4. Those with suspected sepsis or conditions with a risk of death or disability

@shergar As for plastics, glass, shortages, etc, I give up. Now that I’ve seen the document listing the EXACT tubes we’re short on, I know the exact size with the exact reagent so I know they have them available RIGHT NOW in the exact same size we use in other European countries. I just can’t argue it anymore. I’m not getting dragged in again. There is no global shortage, and if you think there is, take it up with the Irish Times.

Sure, you and some journalist at Irish Times must know way more about the situation than us on the ground working within the NHS supply chain

Hospitals here in the US are running low/out of OXYGEN. You'll get there.

To all the people saying why don’t we reuse them.
I work in pathology, we have a shoot that comes straight from A&E with blood bottles. Would not be able to use that if the bottles were glass because they would break. Then blood would be more likely to go missing or be delayed getting to the lab.
The disposable ones are much much safer than any alternative and the NHS has a duty to protect its staff.
They are vacuum sealed which draws the blood out and makes it a nicer experience for the patient and the phlebotomist.
The bottles all have different additives which need to be there when the blood is taken to prepare the blood for the correct test, not added afterwards in the lab when the blood has already clotted in the time it takes to reach the lab or all the (whatever you’re looking for) has been metabolised.
You know your blood continues to metabolise after you’ve taken it from your body so it can have a very different composition in a short amount of time without the help of preservatives in the bottles.

@RightYesButNo we haven’t run out, we have over 50,000 of them (lavender and gold tops) in my hospitals store right now and you wouldn’t think there was a shortage from looking at how many we have.
But, we usually get through these very quickly and we’ve been warned by Becton Dickinson that they are having problems fulfilling orders so we need to ration them.

@Mamanyt we had some issues with oxygen in previous waves, but thankfully our high vaccine uptake is preventing the huge admissions we saw in January. Your oxygen supply issues are due to the huge number of those hospitalised with COVID, not a shortage as such. The hospital systems are simply not designed to deal with the oxygen requirements of hundreds of Covid patients

@shergar What in the world does the NHS supply chain have to do with whether this is a global shortage or not? I very clearly referred to the news reporting this is not a global shortage. You can be the head of the NHS and you aren’t going to change the fact there are no reports of blood vial shortages from other countries (this was my point about the Irish Times). If articles about shortages all over European countries come out tomorrow, fine, no worries. But there are none right now. I’m not going to keep having a bun fight about something that doesn’t exist.

@Biolo Yes, I’m aware. I read they’re being rationed for urgent tests, and I know even 50,000 can go very fast, especially since these are for pretty “normal” tests (not super rare). I really hope this is a case of the the NHS being as careful as possible, which is smart of them, and the media being alarmist which is arsehole-ish but they did it often with COVID, and nothing “runs out” before things are sorted. Good luck to you; I’m sure it’s stressful.

[quote CrankyFrankie]@Tomasinabombadil don’t you fill a whole bag?[/quote]
Yes a bag is filled but also blood is drawn off for sampling/testing hence needing the tubes. If I remember correctly I think 3-4 per person/donation.🙂

I suspect reusing these vials is one of the trickier things to do, but every time DH had his dressings changed (three times a week for 3 months) the district nurse left a new pair of scissors behind because they can't be reused. She wouldn't even use them if I offered her the ones she'd used for DH previously.

That is madness and repeated with so many separate items.

The global shortage is of the plastic - many, many press reports about thus.

It has hit one manufacturer of these bottles very badly, and everywhere that is supplied by them I'd affected (see FDA warning in June) - and this has hit internationally - not just UK, not even just Europe. Those who use other manufacturers are not currently affected (includes parts of NHS as there is plurality of suppliers, but they are having to reprioritse between areas in the national interest)

It's much the same situation as earlier this year when availability of specialist glass threatened vaccine supply

The scissors thing puzzles me to. But I have a couple of pairs of them in my first aid kit now, as do a couple of my friends, from when dad was having his ulcer bandages changed at home since they haven't entirely gone to waste.

@countrygirl99

The scissors thing puzzles me to. But I have a couple of pairs of them in my first aid kit now, as do a couple of my friends, from when dad was having his ulcer bandages changed at home since they haven't entirely gone to waste.

Yes I've kept some too, but 3 times a week for 3 months is 36 pairs! And that's just DH.

@rosyAndMoo some of us have the go to Phlebotomy out patients clinics for blood draws. The GPs practices in my area refuse to routinely do them as they can only get them collected a couple of times a week.

Also even though I may have my blood drawn by a student (of some sort) at the clinic, they are supervised by a phlebotomist.

@Biolo

To all the people saying why don’t we reuse them. I work in pathology, we have a shoot that comes straight from A&E with blood bottles. Would not be able to use that if the bottles were glass because they would break. Then blood would be more likely to go missing or be delayed getting to the lab. The disposable ones are much much safer than any alternative and the NHS has a duty to protect its staff. They are vacuum sealed which draws the blood out and makes it a nicer experience for the patient and the phlebotomist. The bottles all have different additives which need to be there when the blood is taken to prepare the blood for the correct test, not added afterwards in the lab when the blood has already clotted in the time it takes to reach the lab or all the (whatever you’re looking for) has been metabolised. You know your blood continues to metabolise after you’ve taken it from your body so it can have a very different composition in a short amount of time without the help of preservatives in the bottles.

Brilliant explained.

@Biolo

To all the people saying why don’t we reuse them. I work in pathology, we have a shoot that comes straight from A&E with blood bottles. Would not be able to use that if the bottles were glass because they would break. Then blood would be more likely to go missing or be delayed getting to the lab. The disposable ones are much much safer than any alternative and the NHS has a duty to protect its staff. They are vacuum sealed which draws the blood out and makes it a nicer experience for the patient and the phlebotomist. The bottles all have different additives which need to be there when the blood is taken to prepare the blood for the correct test, not added afterwards in the lab when the blood has already clotted in the time it takes to reach the lab or all the (whatever you’re looking for) has been metabolised. You know your blood continues to metabolise after you’ve taken it from your body so it can have a very different composition in a short amount of time without the help of preservatives in the bottles.

I once accidentally put a glass esr bottle in our path shoot - didn’t end well - put the shoot out of action for 3 days whilst it was cleaned and decontaminated ☺️ This was about 12 years ago though and it’s probably 10 years since I last used a glass bottle and even then the ESR were the last glass ones. All Our bd vaccutainer bottles are plastic. Also we were warned about a month ago that the shortage would happen in our area - I now work in a GP surgery and like others have really “enjoyed” the reuse, dishwash and refill Suggestions 😂😂

You know every hospital use to have its own sterilisation rooms... All utensils were steel and steam sterilised after every use. Even syringes.

Out of all things that you want to have fresh however - blood testing kits are certainly one of them!

It's more to do with twats up top not securing deals with previous companies about supply post Brexit, if they had done this they would know they couldn't get them due to import rules and then secure contracts with companies that can. But they haven't. Huge cock up again. Not the first and not the last.

They're manufactured here but one of the materials has to be imported, the supplier should have flagged this as a potential issue pre brexit as its them who cannot deliver under their contractual obligations; but yes you'd hope that when putting all of your eggs in one basket with one sole supplier that the risk would have been calculated NHS end too.

You know every hospital use to have its own sterilisation rooms... All utensils were steel and steam sterilised after every use.

Until variant Creutzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD, "mad cow disease"), when the risk of transmitting prions was judged to be too high to permit reuse of instruments. People don't just decide to stop reusing stuff because they're lazy or trying to make as short-term saving. It's nearly always for reasons of safety or increasing speed.

The amount of waste in the NHS is appalling

If we move to glass again who is going to collect them, wash them, sterilise them, redistribute them? Fairies? The NHS is understaffed as it is. It would have to invest a lot of money to recruit whole new teams just to wash and sterilise glass.

I'm sure if they got rid of a few managers that would free up some money to create a new job role to do with this

You mean the people who are working to save money within the NHS, introduce new services, run the hospitals, manage discharges and beds, pay the staff, deal,with patient complaints, manage hospital contracts, commission new services for patients, manage GP practices, make sure that the bills are paid and the lights on and doors open, work with patients to improve services......just a few things that managers in the NHS who I personally know do each day.

[quote endlesscraziness]@Mamanyt we had some issues with oxygen in previous waves, but thankfully our high vaccine uptake is preventing the huge admissions we saw in January. Your oxygen supply issues are due to the huge number of those hospitalised with COVID, not a shortage as such. The hospital systems are simply not designed to deal with the oxygen requirements of hundreds of Covid patients [/quote]
Preaching to the choir here. Fully vaccinated, STILL masking and distancing, and pretty much isolated by choice...I do not socialize often at all, very much a loner.

Yes, it is our low vaccination rates. High hospitalization of those unvaccinated. I see a time coming when hospitals will be forced to triage, and turn away the unvaccinated, as over 99% of our deaths are in that group. The hospitals will be forced to treat those that they have the best chance of saving...the vaccinated. We have far, FAR to many people critically ill with other issues who cannot be seen.