To ask what would happen if blood test tubes runout

[Whocareswherewego76]

I know there is a shortage but what happens if they run our.

The amount of single use disposable wastage in the NHS is scandalous. As is the current system of needing umpteen tiny bottles for each patient.

The whole system could and should be redesigned, but the NHS is such a juggernaut it seems almost impossible to turn a tide like that. Maybe this crisis will provide the will to think outside the box more.

Apparently some if the modern tubes can be recycled but that would mean someone unscrewing the double ended needle from the tube - putting that person at risk from a needle stick injury. So they don't.

Using multiple bottles for each patient will be because they need to use different tests for different things and some tests will be compatible with each other and the same basic reagents and others won't. All that would happen if you put them all in one tube would be some poor sod at the hospital sitting there extracting them into different tubes. It wouldn't somehow be better just because you couldn't see it.

The umpteen tiny bottles used on each draw all have a different function and will have different "stuff" in the bottom of the bottle. So I can't take an fbc in a gold top bottle and I can't take LFTs in a purple one.

The bottles are plastic, they have a plastic and rubber top. Once the rubber top is pierced they're useless as the vacuum has gone. So if I miss a vein and the bottle is empty I'd need a new bottle.

The only way of reusing them is sterilising the bottle and I'm not sure being plastic you could get them hot enough. Then sending them off somewhere for new tops and the vacuum to be redone. You'd need a special machine for this I'm sure. You couldn't just put new tops on as there'd be no vacuum.

It would cost more than having single use ones. Plus may not be more environmental friendly when you consider the cost to the environment of sterilising and transporting about.

Maybe we should go back to using syringes to take blood and old fashioned glass vials with no vacuum. The nurses can just scrub the vials and syringes out in the ward sink and reuse. 🙈🤣

The amount of single use disposable wastage in the NHS is scandalous. As is the current system of needing umpteen tiny bottles for each patient

You have samples in different tubes because they contain different reagents to prepare the samples for different tests. You can't do a full blood count on blood that has clotted, so the tube has to contain an anti-coagulant. You can't measure serum electrolytes in an anti-coagulated sample, so the blood has to be in a different tube for that. You can't measure clotting times in a sample that has already clotted, but it needs different anti-coagulants from the sample for the FBC. And so on and so forth.

Laboratory tests are highly automated and require samples to have all been prepared in exactly the same way for them to be accurate. There are reasons why samples are put in different tubes. Using one tube per patient would only allow one test per patient, which would usually not provide useful results.

geekymedics.com/blood-bottles-guide/

There was a problem last year, October I think. We had to cancel non urgent eg diabetic annual review bloods at the surgery until it was resolved. I think it may have been something relating to the processing of the blood samples.

"The amount of single use disposable wastage in the NHS is scandalous. As is the current system of needing umpteen tiny bottles for each patient.

The whole system could and should be redesigned, but the NHS is such a juggernaut it seems almost impossible to turn a tide like that. Maybe this crisis will provide the will to think outside the box more."
@Alternista am on tenterhooks waiting for your incredible solution to this global production issue. Perhaps weave them from lentils?

What did they do in the 'olden days' then 🤔

Re; the additions to the tubes, could they not be in bottles and the person add a bit of whatever is required before they take the blood?

I'm sure if they got rid of a few managers that would free up some money to create a new job role to do with this, preparing tubes, collecting them, cleaning them (milton and barbicide and dishwashers and UV sterilisers exist) or take on something else to give the blood takers more time to do this stuff.

Just remembered I’m meant to get bloods done to check lithium levels now not sure if I have to bother although I saw a poster up thread said they will still test for potentially toxic medication So not sure guessing I’m going to have to ring up🤷🏼‍♀️

I can’t believe that people who clearly have no idea of the different reagents and preservatives in path tubes feel qualified to comment.

Truly this is the age of ignorance.

Re; the additions to the tubes, could they not be in bottles and the person add a bit of whatever is required before they take the blood?

They would still be using multiple bottles but adding the reagents themselves, which would be more inefficient. Also, it would introduce the risk of inaccurate amounts being added.

It's not a matter of adding "a bit of whatever". It needs to be an exact amount of exactly the right reagent for the test results to be reliable.

@3Br1tnee

What did they do in the 'olden days' then 🤔

I imagine they used glass, had far less types of test available and weren't as accurate.

There's absolutely a time and a place for single use plastic, and blood collection tubes are pretty much that.

(grammar apologies)

@3Br1tnee

Re; the additions to the tubes, could they not be in bottles and the person add a bit of whatever is required before they take the blood?

I'm sure if they got rid of a few managers that would free up some money to create a new job role to do with this, preparing tubes, collecting them, cleaning them (milton and barbicide and dishwashers and UV sterilisers exist) or take on something else to give the blood takers more time to do this stuff.

I'm sure these managers exist very high up, but the managers I work with all work their arses off, I vote not to get rid of them.

They'd have to stop taking blood tests. It would be a disaster.

People are so funny, I agree with the comment about age of ignorance!

Glass tubes 🤣

@3Br1tnee

Re; the additions to the tubes, could they not be in bottles and the person add a bit of whatever is required before they take the blood?

I'm sure if they got rid of a few managers that would free up some money to create a new job role to do with this, preparing tubes, collecting them, cleaning them (milton and barbicide and dishwashers and UV sterilisers exist) or take on something else to give the blood takers more time to do this stuff.

I really don’t know where to start with this post!

The current bottles, vaccutainers, are designed to be efficient, reliable and safe. A doctor/nurse/phlebotomist adding blood from a syringe to glass bottles and mixing with reagents at the bedside is none of those.

And the idea that getting rid of hospital managers would create the capacity to recycle blood bottles makes me laugh. Who will organise and create the infrastructure to make this happen? There are good and bad within the NHS management structure but each NHS trust is a multimillion pound a year business in terms of turnover, usually employing thousands of staff and delivering care to thousands of patients. It needs managers!

Note: I am not a hospital manager!

What they did in the 'olden days' was not do half the tests we now have available, tbh.

I'm sure, if it really comes to it, there'll be a switch to whatever there can be, but it's debatable how much of the 'traditional' equipment is still around and available, how many people are trained to use it, and whether the labs can even process and analyse samples drawn that way.

It's such a simple thing but it has the potential to be catastrophic. We're used to being able to have all the data we get from blood draws, used to relying on it for diagnostic guides and warning signs, used to being able to 'rule out' things by throwing a blood test at it. It's a relatively quick, cheap, non-invasive tool.

It's crap for patient's, but I feel genuinely sorry for the doctors and nurses, too. They don't need their working conditions made any harder right now and this could be a nightmare for them.

This was interesting, thank you to posters who have specialist knowledge.
I have annual med adjustment tests due shortly. The poor receptionist was so apologetic that it couldn't happen just yet. DH needs them for liver function, but only because of a fungal toenail.

Many, many, many tests are done which aren't urgent, or dramatic if left a while. I'm sure the crucial tests will be done, while we wait for supply issues to be managed.

Thirty + years ago, this conversation could have been “My blood sample has been infected by cross contamination from blood tests, why can’t we have brand new containers for each set of tests?”.

@Theunamedcat

Why are we not reusing them? They are glass?

It's not possible unfortunately.

@MissTrip82

I can’t believe that people who clearly have no idea of the different reagents and preservatives in path tubes feel qualified to comment.

Truly this is the age of ignorance.

Amen!

Thank you for explaining about the blood test tubes. I had a blood test at the hospital last week which used ten tubes!!

I understand that there's a global supply issue - but that's the bit that surprises me (whereas government procurement cock-up would not.) For something that is so commonly used - I get it's not as cheap to run sterile factories, but I would still have expected there to be a few more manufactors and suppliers round the world.