Discrimination against single mothers?

[thepeopleversuswork]

There was an interesting thread on here a few days ago about the pluses and minuses of being a single parent. A few posters said they felt stigmatised for it. I don't, personally, but it got me thinking about the sorts of low-level discrimination and disadvantage which single parents experience and what can be done to change it.

Rather than direct stigma, which I'm very lucky not to suffer from, the worst thing for me is the way men in particular who do domestic jobs for you try to take advantage of you being a single woman to overcharge you and generally pull the wool over your eyes.

I had a bloke the other day who I asked to do some work on my garden and he tried to charge me an absolutely extortionate amount of money basically for some garden clearance. I'd told him what my budget was, he went over it half way through the job with some very implausible excuse, tried to mansplain to me why he couldn't get the job done to time and budget and then demanded cash upfront half way through it (on a Sunday when I was going on holiday in half an hour).

Apart from being expensive and irritating, the worst thing about it was my being absolutely certain if I'd either been a bloke or been married or had a bloke living with me there's no way he'd have had the nerve to try this on.

I think quite a lot of people (mainly men) who do jobs like building, maintenance, decorating, anything to do with care etc, see single women as sitting targets for this sort of thing. There's an unspoken expectation that if you're daft enough not to have a bloke around to deal with then you've got it coming.

Curious to hear if others have got other examples of this. Not necessarily breaking Equal Ops legislation levels of discrimination, just low level shittiness.

@znaika

I never saw the original thread and would interested to see it. There is definitely a stigma against single mothers normally always from other women who sneer at you in social situations or refuse to invite you to things, or pity and patronise you and then get huffy when they suspect you might have more money than them. It is not all women by any means but I have a good group of single mother friends and we have all experienced it.

This. I often find some women use you to make themselves feel better. Particularly if they have a shitty relationships or are insecure. People like to assume you have no money, are poor or uneducated. They often like to use the term broken home, Which is very offensive.

Some people also like to other you and your. children, often with faux concern to dress the situation as something else.

I’ve been very lucky with garages and workmen.

@znaika

They also hate it when your child does well.

Have to agree with you there as well. There’s almost an expectation that your child with be naughty a year away and stupid.

@Freddiefox

Its funny you mention this: I haven't really had this sort of stigma and god help anyone who used the term "broken home" in front of me.

It's more the unconscious or semi-conscious stuff that is a real problem for me. Workmen over-charging or assuming you're daft. Employers or school scheduling stuff at antisocial hours and assuming everyone has someone at home to pick up the slack etc.

I once got told off by a (female) boss for mentioning my children in the office. I was taken aside and told that it was fine to sometimes leave early etc as long as I didn't communicate that it was child-related. I'm pretty sure a bloke who left work early to pick up his kids would be lauded as a perfect dad and got a medal for being so "supportive".

Many years ago went with my nephew to buy a computer. It was the kind of shop you might call a "box shifter". All the assistants were busy so we waited our turn. When one became free a man (who had entered the shop after us) tried to jump the queue. He had seen us there and knew we were next but just nabbed the assistant. I told the assistant we were next and to the man I said "You will have to wait your turn. We were here before you arrived so you know its not your turn next". He looked astounded. So astounded that he walked out of the shop rather than lose face. My nephew often talks about how I had a dismissive "edge" to my voice when I told him (not asked him) to wait his turn. I enjoyed that.

Is there or has there ever been a single mother in the cabinet, or at least one whose children were of school age?

Apart from being expensive and irritating, the worst thing about it was my being absolutely certain if I'd either been a bloke or been married or had a bloke living with me there's no way he'd have had the nerve to try this on.

You couldn't be more wrong IME.

I've been married for 20 years and lost count of the amount of piss-taking tradesmen we've told to jog on.

This is where your local FB group might come in handy, we've had plenty of excellent recommendations from people (both male and female) who regularly use certain people.

i get around the car issue by being savvy.. i know how much the parts cost, and i have friends who are mechanics (just too far to go for work) and ask them what they'd charge

The trick with ANY tradesman is do your research so you don't get screwed over.

The rest.. yeah, it does piss me off, i don't put up with it though, i'm polite but firm and i dont let anyone take advantage.

Going anywhere that screams "Kid's go/eat free", then you read the Ts&Cs which state "kids go/eat free when accompanied by 2 adults".

That used to wind me up no end.

Hmmmm

I’m a little unsure

I’ve just had loads of work done, but have made sure to be very clear on what I want and keep bringing people back if needs be. Comes a bit down to how firm you are I think.

I think some people don't like to hire single women with kids because they feel they can't be as reliable or flexible in work. I suppose they might feel the same about single dads, but I think that's rarer.

I don't totally agree about the gardener scenario. I think some tradespeople who are dishonest are happy to take advantage of anyone who doesn't know a lot about the trade and what to expect. I've certainly seen a man who was contracting for some work be taken advantage of because he wasn't handy himself.

It seems women are somewhat less likely to be handy than men so maybe these guys will try it on more with women, hoping to gain an advantage. Whereas if they get it wrong, they will be revealed as frauds, so they might be more careful with a man who they suspect might be handy. I think that's more about working the probabilities than sexism though.

@Threearm

As a woman I won't go to a car repair garage or anything relates without a man with me. It's brutally obvious there they try it on.

Have literally never experienced this in over 25 years of car ownership. But then, I do understand how they work and can do a lot of it myself. You don’t have to be helpless.

Have to agree with you there as well. There’s almost an expectation that your child with be naughty a year away and stupid.
And when your child has SEN - after being referred consistently by nurseries, private therapists, health visitors from the age of 2, going through a full diagnostic process and getting an official - it is still dismissed as being bad parenting, and... oh, he just needs a male role model to behave. This last one came from a teacher.

I have a friend who has disastrous dealings with workmen - she is married but always tries to barter them down, argues the price.
Whereas I always want a recommended person and ask the price, get other quotes (though that's not easy these days) and decide to go with it or not. I would never negotiate the price I would just look for someone else.
I have been scammed by someone I assumed was locak (local yellow pages - turned out to come from much further afield. But you learn from your mistakes.

I deal with most of the 'tradespeople' we use in our house, mainly because I am part time and around when they come.

I have never felt I am being treated differently, also had my own house and lived alone for 10+ years and never felt it then either.

I am prepared to challenge them if I think its daft, get multiple quotes etc.

Using garages, I have bought multiple cars, haggled the prices, dealt with repairs, services etc all alone, never been ripped off. Knowing a bit about what is going on helps, ask questions do some research before agreeing to stuff.

@AudacityBaby

Would gently suggest that if this is discrimination, it's against women - whether single, or just appearing to be because partner/husband/whatever elsewhere. It's got nothing to do with parenthood. It doesn't affect single women with children in a different way to single women without.

Agreed! Exactly what I was coming on to say! I sometimes wear a wedding band for this very reason.

I think this is the case with many single females - regardless of whether or not they are mothers.

If I am expecting a tradesperson I usually ask a (male) relative to be present. Then the tradesperson does not try this trick and always clears up afterwards. Even if male relative does not stay for entire visit the tradesperson knows another male is "around" and may return at any point.

My nephew has some big biker mates who can come in surprisingly useful for the price of a six pack. Especially if you want to scare the neighbours.

A roofer tried to rip me off by charging an extortionate amount of money. He knew I was married 🤷‍♀️ so I don't think its just because you're single

On the opposite hand, a male roofer actually under charged us and said it was a good deed as him and his wife knew what it was like being a first time home owner, having a baby on the way and not much money. Ill always remember that

Op just has an issue with Tradespeople.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

One thing I have seen is a lot of situations etc where there's an expectation that there is a supportive second parent around to help, e.g

• don't bring younger siblings along to class assembly etc (what else are you supposed to do with them)
• parents meeting in the evening when children are in bed & theres no second parent to stay home while one attends

I can imagine all such situations being a real nightmare when you are juggling a family & work with no second pair of hands around

There are parents who work shifts which aren't easily changeable. They are part of a couple and end up in the same situation. (I only know because I've been a babysitter for such people.)

@forinborin just because someone is a teacher doesn't mean they don't have prejudices like the rest of society. You hear shit from wide range of people who work in professionals that should know better.

Having to to fork out 75% council tax as the single person discount is only 25% but if you had a partner you would only be paying 50%
Family tickets that require 2 adults-"sorry you don't get a discount because you're on your own"- some places are getting better and do a 1 adult plus child ticket but not a lot.
Working expecting you to be able to attend functions/meetings at school/nursery pickup time (but so and so has children too... yes but so and so has a partner to help with pickup)
nursery wanting dad's details too.... told them I'm paying so I'm your point of contact. That soon shut them down
having to justify going to work full time or always being tired. Yes I get others have children but if you can share the tasks/financial costs and caring it uses up a lot less energy/hours work
workmen etc asking where your husband is..... none of your bloody business even if I did have a husband. sod off

The list could go on but it gets frustrating.

I've experienced "low level" discrimination with things like holidays being more expensive, the kids go/eat free thing like a PP said. Also, people assuming I'm very poor (nothing to do with my clothing, etc). People being well meaning but condescending. And yes the workmen thing but I guess that one could apply to all women living alone.

That's definitely an interesting post and given i'm a single mum to one child i can see where you're coming from. There is a sort of assumption that we don't know certain things like DIY/Gardening/car buying etc because we are women and not under the guidance of a man. But funnily enough i was really lucky that my removal company (man in his 50's) stayed with me when I did the 'handover' of my old place to the letting agent. His company had also done the final clean on the place. The removal company realised I was on my own with a 10yr old an that this was my first ever move and he said he'd like to be there because often this is where letting agents find 'faults' and you're held accountable as they reel off the (newly added) fine-print in the contract. So funnily enough he was 'saving' me from being taken advantage of from the letting agent who was female. Guess it works both ways sometimes.

I definitely feel that single-parents to one child have a rough time as you are constantly shown that 2 people are 'not considered a family.' Family 'discounts' begin with 3 people and are for 1 parent 2 kids or 2 kids 1 parent or obviously much larger families... in my experience (i'm not UK) based it's always been cheaper for me to have my DS and a friend of his go anywhere like the cinema, theme park etc. I haven't faced too much stigmatism directly but it has taken a while to feel like a family with it just being the two of us. And a big part of that comes from societal norms because we very much are a family just a small one.