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Original poster

To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

730 replies

Needapoodle · 27/08/2021 08:41

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

OP posts:
VestaTilley · 27/08/2021 21:14

He shouldn’t resign for the animals thing- he should resign because on his watch as defence secretary we have abandoned the people of Afghanistan.

Doodlebug71 · 27/08/2021 22:12

It's confirmed that the MOD (Wallace is in charge of that dept) has taken farthing and the animals out, but refuse to take the staff.

MOD/Wallace are absolute bar stewards.

Fishbank · 27/08/2021 22:26

Refuse to take the staff, or don't have enough power/sway on the ground with both the taliban and the US to get the staff on the plane? Not saying they haven't made an absolute mess of this, but as always, we don't have much power there by ourselves and have to abide by the US' direction. Also not a fan of Wallance, but not sure what he could have done in keeping our troops in without the backing of America; although the foreign sec could have acted sooner to try and get people out.

Fishbank · 27/08/2021 22:26

Wallace

powershowerforanhour · 27/08/2021 22:26

he should resign because on his watch as defence secretary we have abandoned the people of Afghanistan.

He couldn't make the Americans stay. Without them the British couldn't stay- certainly not at the last minute and probably not even starting 18 months ago. I don't think anyone in his position could have changed the US timeline, he just had to deal with it as it unfolded.

m0therofdragons · 27/08/2021 22:30

I hate the constant demanding of public figures to resign. The nature of their jobs means they will fuck up on some level but if we constantly refuse to allow a culture of learning we are instead creating one of cover ups, which is unhealthy in any organisation. Obviously we’d rather they didn’t mess up but I’m not aware there are any degrees or phds in dealing with the Taliban and other volatile situations.

TooOldandTired · 27/08/2021 22:33

@Doodlebug71

It's confirmed that the MOD (Wallace is in charge of that dept) has taken farthing and the animals out, but refuse to take the staff.

MOD/Wallace are absolute bar stewards.

What is your source for them refusing to take staff???
JennetHumfrye · 27/08/2021 22:45

No.

Flyingantday · 27/08/2021 22:50

@Teamfemale

I don't think Pens primary aim was the animals, I think it was his staff but he knew that on SM people cared more about cats and dogs than humans.

He did his best to get his staff out
Ben Wallace did his best to get other people out and his soldiers safe

There are no winners or bad guys in this

This
Doodlebug71 · 27/08/2021 23:04

@TooOldandTired. MOD. Same people as tweeted "he and his pets are safe". Note they didn't say "rescued service animals: the ones we buy purple poppies for." They said pets. Again. They couldn't resist the dig. They refused to take his staff, and still couldn't just stop. That's a lot of vulnerable people they've refused to take in. I hope I'm wrong on this, and they've taken his staff. I really do.

Doodlebug71 · 27/08/2021 23:11

@m0therofdragons

I hate the constant demanding of public figures to resign. The nature of their jobs means they will fuck up on some level but if we constantly refuse to allow a culture of learning we are instead creating one of cover ups, which is unhealthy in any organisation. Obviously we’d rather they didn’t mess up but I’m not aware there are any degrees or phds in dealing with the Taliban and other volatile situations.
Other countries educate their political figures to a high standard. The French are a prime example. Most ofht eir public figures have to attend a "grande Ecole", and be experts at what they do. Not so UK govt ministers.

There are indeed degrees in how to deal with this level of shit. An old friend of mine advised his govt how to deal with the Balkans war, because that's what he was trained to do. For exammple, French ministers would have to study international politics and law at university and PG level for some years before they're allowed anywhere near government.

The UK appointies numpties with no relevant/direct experience. other countries don't. They appoint people who kno wwhat to do, and how to do to it.

Fishbank · 27/08/2021 23:16

[quote Doodlebug71]@TooOldandTired. MOD. Same people as tweeted "he and his pets are safe". Note they didn't say "rescued service animals: the ones we buy purple poppies for." They said pets. Again. They couldn't resist the dig. They refused to take his staff, and still couldn't just stop. That's a lot of vulnerable people they've refused to take in. I hope I'm wrong on this, and they've taken his staff. I really do.[/quote]
They didn't say they refused to take his staff, ffs have a word with yourself. The logistical challenge of having around a week to get as many people to safety in a very hostile environment is absolutely ridiculous, probably the most challenging they have faced. The soldiers out there, many of whom are young men and women, unlikely to have seen anything like this in their life have been risking their lives to help as many people as they can. The civil servants back home have been working around the clock, they have not refused his staff, they granted visas they wouldn't have been granted at all if it wasn't for pen, but other factors have sadly likely prevented them getting out for now. The comms person on the twitter is unlikely to be the same person coordinating anything else.

TooOldandTired · 27/08/2021 23:58

[quote Doodlebug71]@TooOldandTired. MOD. Same people as tweeted "he and his pets are safe". Note they didn't say "rescued service animals: the ones we buy purple poppies for." They said pets. Again. They couldn't resist the dig. They refused to take his staff, and still couldn't just stop. That's a lot of vulnerable people they've refused to take in. I hope I'm wrong on this, and they've taken his staff. I really do.[/quote]
Absolute rubbish, show me any reputable source that says anywhere they refused his staff getting on a plane other than you deducing this based on what, oh yes absolutely fuck all.
It's clear he and his animals have left without them, there is nothing indicate the MOD stopped them.
It's people like you and the shit you make up that turn people against this cause.

TooOldandTired · 28/08/2021 00:00

And they are having to waste their time tweeting about PF because of the incessant contact from all his supporters.
I mean fuck all the people who didn't get out, who cares about them as long as these dogs did.

IAmSuperman · 28/08/2021 00:04

I mean fuck all the people who didn't get out, who cares about them as long as these dogs did.

No one thinks that. You should try to calm down, you accuse people of ‘making shit up’ and then make stuff up like no one cares about the people. Of course they do.

TooOldandTired · 28/08/2021 00:11

@IAmSuperman

I mean fuck all the people who didn't get out, who cares about them as long as these dogs did.

No one thinks that. You should try to calm down, you accuse people of ‘making shit up’ and then make stuff up like no one cares about the people. Of course they do.

Have a read of all the tweets supporting PF, delighted he and the animals have got out. Some go to the trouble of mentioning the staff but most don't. I can send you as many links as you like to these tweets. So no I'm not making stuff up like the last poster. Maybe you should calm down, I'll comment however I like and I don't need to be condescended to by someone who is so threatened by a person on the internet with a different opinion that they have to respond with the passive aggressive calm down BS.
XenoBitch · 28/08/2021 00:13

The thread about PF got closed and deleted. Can see this one going the same way.

IAmSuperman · 28/08/2021 00:25

TooOldandTired

Just because people are happy Pen and the dogs got out, doesn’t mean they don’t care about the people that haven’t. It’s a big leap to say that because some random on twitter hasn’t mentioned the staff, that they don’t care. If they’ve said they don’t care about the people then clearly they are twisted.

There are a lot of idiots on twitter though and many are best ignored.

Pen and the animals getting out is great. But obviously there is a humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan and I certainly won’t be sleeping well again tonight. It’s horrific.

WanderingFruitWonderer · 28/08/2021 04:28

I agree @IAmSuperman. I'm so devastated for the Nowzad staff, that they're still stuck in Kabul. As much as I'm devastated for every single innocent person left behind. It's unbearable, and I'm not expecting a good night's sleep for some time to come.
But I'm also very happy for the people, and animals, who have reached, or are reaching, safety. I hope they'll all be settled soon, and I wish them so well for their lives ahead. Some of the suffering in the world has been reduced as a result.
But I wish with all my heart that nobody was left behind. Just thinking how they must feel knowing the evacuation is ending. Poor poor souls. I hope they can be offered places on commercial flights soon. Or that somehow something can be done.
So yes, overjoyed for the rescued, and utterly beyond devastated for the left behind

milkjetmum · 28/08/2021 04:35

Ben Wallace is crap, before kabul fell as all other cities had fallen he said on radio 4 they planned to have everyone out by end of September. I'm no military expert but even I thought listening to that you'd better work a lot faster than that.

HoppingHamster · 28/08/2021 04:43

I might have missed this as only skimmed the thread, but I just wanted to ask what the rationale for expecting his staff to be offered places was as I don’t know the extent to which they were eligible. I’m not questioning the humanitarian aspect here, only saying I don’t know what their status is / would otherwise have been and therefore it’s hard to judge what should have happened?

Personally although I’m an animal lover I think the whole affair was a huge diversion and that neither pen nor Ben covered themselves in glory. It should always have been people first. Likewise, at times like this I think you have to do what you’re told or face the consequences, there wasn’t time to challenge decisions.

FrenchFancie · 28/08/2021 05:06

As with most things in life, the situation with Oen Farthing isn’t simple. People are not just getting on a plane in Kabul and stepping off in Heathrow - they are stopping in various countries on the way over. It’s relatively easy to sort out people’s immigration status in these countries, and to get food / water / hygiene needs into an aircraft. International animal freight is more difficult. The animals can only travel for so long and it’s much harder to sort out immigration (different places need different vaccines for example) and food / water / hygiene needs need to be taken account of. Not all RAF aircraft can transport animals in the hold, only some, so you have to make sure they get on the right aircraft or everything will freeze to death in the hold. On arrival in the uk, not every airport can process animals coming in (for civilian airports you are looking at Heathrow, Birmingham, Manchester I think and maybe Edinburgh? But that’s about it).
So you can have a plane faffing about sorting out 130 animals or in the same amount of time it could go backwards and forwards bringing more people.
In relation to his staff, whilst being female and educated isn’t great in the taliban’s eyes, having worked for the UK military is a death sentence. The MOD were / are trying to prioritise translators / fixers and their families, who have been promised a safe haven. These people should have been left behind simply because Mr Farthing knows how to shout on social media.

I’m sorry for him, I’m sorry for his staff, but I’m also sorry for all the other educated women in Afghanistan who will now have to keep their heads down. It’s a terrible thing to happen. We haven’t had the time to help everyone, there are people we have left behind who will be killed by the Taliban for helping us in the past, and whom we made a promise to, that has had to be broken.

As for Ben Wallace - I doubt there was any way he would get out of this situation looking good, doesn’t mean he should have to resign.

IAmSuperman · 28/08/2021 06:30

These people should have been left behind simply because Mr Farthing knows how to shout on social media.

I presume you mean shouldn’t have been left behind? Pen isn’t the reason they e been left behind.
The reasons eligible people are left behind are a safe passage to the airport was not secured meaning people struggled to make it there. Then Bidens rule change and the explosions happened. It’s not Pens fault as much as some people want to blame him.

KeflavikAirport · 28/08/2021 07:51

The brave rescue animals who are a soldier's only friend seem to include embassy cats with names like Mr. grey and Socks. Sounds quite a lot like pets to me.

Teamfemale · 28/08/2021 07:51

There are still UK children and families there. I assume because they are British Nationals they would have been given priority over his staff. These are families that were helping the military or government and will also be a prime target for ISIS and Taliban also.

A Uk child was killed in the bombing outside the airport.

No one is the bad guy here, I think every body is just doing their best.