To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

[Needapoodle]

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

@KeflavikAirport

He should have just euthanised the animals two weeks ago if he was that worried about the Taliban getting hold of them.

I'm also curious as to how cats are service animals.

I'm also curious as to how many of the dogs were street dog rescues rather than military support animals given the UK withdrew combat troops in 2014 and what will become of them in the UK where unwanted dogs are routinely put to sleep.

Aren’t you a lovely compassionate person... not 😠

@DogsAreImpawtant

The troops wouldn’t have had to help if the staff were allowed to leave as they would have done much of the loading.

True but I’m not sure that would have cut any ice with those involved with Visas.

There was a thread on twitter with a few people saying they worked at an airport loading baggage/cargo/animals. According to them animals are quickly processed and put on planes, they didn’t seem to think it would take long at all

No idea what paper work would have been needed ex-Kabul other than some idea of weights but the mechanics of loading aren’t longwinded as long as there’s easy access from ramp level up to the hold(s) or whatever cargo compartments are involved.

@Tele12345

I think we need an inquiry into how much time the soldiers and diplomats spent processing those animals and extra plane , and what that lost time cost in UK nationals who could have been evacuated.

The British were open that they were limited by time in the airport - so they couldn't process everyone who needed evacuating even though they had plenty of planes. They had to decide who to process and who to leave behind (or in this case whether it was better to process cats and dogs or process British families and children).

They had enough planes to fly everyone out and had no need of any planes, they said they did not want a charter flight as the time taken to process it could have been used processing more desperate families and children.

All Pen and his staff were offered places on military planes, the charter plane was solely required for his animals. If it was just staff plus Pen being evacuated it would have not been needed.

Now we have left behind human beings because we could not process their paperwork in time, whilst instead spending that limited time processing the paperwork for dogs, cats and an extra plane required for those dogs and cats.

It is no good people on the internet speculating, we need a formal inquiry. I know if my mum, dad or child were left behind, I would be calling for an investigation. Not one second of time should have been spent processing the animals, when that meant one second less on getting Uk citizens out of danger.

NO, what we DO NEED is an inquiry into how this mess happened that both the UK and USA left important information that will very probably lead Afghan people being killed. Why did our government and the US handle this situation so badly? It’s just utter incompetence to leave any information that is useful to the enemy. For god’s sake surely the shedding machine were working overtime in the embassies and army bases! It’s bloody common sense. Hasn’t the US learnt anything from Vietnam?

True but I’m not sure that would have cut any ice with those involved with Visas.

I know that. I just meant people are trying to say that Pens animals took up time. If his staff would have been able to leave, that time would not have had to have been the troops time.

'The difficulty is getting people into and out of the airport and we have just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs, meanwhile my interpreters family are likely to be killed' - Tom Tugendhat in the House of Commons today.

I do feel this whole situation was Pen trying to get his staff out, but its backfired. His staff are now targets and families that worked for the UK and I think some UK citizens have been left behind.

TBH pen shouldn't have encouraged people to harass the MOD on twitter and who ever gave out the personal number is awful AND the MOD should not be bowing down to SM pressure.

I think he did okay under difficult circumstances. Our focus now should turn to how we support those who have been displaced and are coming to the UK and how we support the remainder who were supposed to get out but did not. Special mention for the troops coming back, who have also had a difficult time. If anyone had links to websites on how to support would it be possible to post them? I have followed some and they do not seem to work.

I also think there are questions to be asked about why so many British civilians were still in Afghanistan despite FCDO advice for months being to leave by civilian aircraft Asap. Perhaps more people could have been rescued if people had heeded this message.

@Brainwave89

I think he did okay under difficult circumstances. Our focus now should turn to how we support those who have been displaced and are coming to the UK and how we support the remainder who were supposed to get out but did not. Special mention for the troops coming back, who have also had a difficult time. If anyone had links to websites on how to support would it be possible to post them? I have followed some and they do not seem to work.

Care Uk This one is NW based.

@saucery- thanks

Just heard the voicemail he left Wallace’s adviser on the times online.

I don’t think he had any restraint in what he wanted his supporters to do. let’s just hope the dogs aren’t as rabid as some of his supporters.

@Teamfemale

'The difficulty is getting people into and out of the airport and we have just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs, meanwhile my interpreters family are likely to be killed' - Tom Tugendhat in the House of Commons today.

I do feel this whole situation was Pen trying to get his staff out, but its backfired. His staff are now targets and families that worked for the UK and I think some UK citizens have been left behind.

TBH pen shouldn't have encouraged people to harass the MOD on twitter and who ever gave out the personal number is awful AND the MOD should not be bowing down to SM pressure.

Agreed.

He used bullying tactics.
Not good behaviour.

@Jarstastic

Just heard the voicemail he left Wallace’s adviser on the times online.

I don’t think he had any restraint in what he wanted his supporters to do. let’s just hope the dogs aren’t as rabid as some of his supporters.

Yes, it's awful isn't it, a stressful situation of course but no excuse for 'I will destroy you' messages. I hope he apologises then just quietly without fanfare rehomes the animals (after a 4 month quarantine) and that's it.

Though I have a horrible feeling his supporters are going to try and make him into a hero.

Wonder where all PF's cheerleaders are tonight. I originally thought he was just misguided but having been to the airport and seen the chaos and devastation that he continued to push for his animals to get out shows what he is really like. That phone message is pretty revealing too, I'm not surprised the MOD were sick of him.

Couldn't have put it better than Tom Tugendhat, he sounds close to tears in this clip.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1431548843070574597

Ouch, his voicemail is pretty vile, and proves he did actively want his supporters to apply pressure by contacting people at the MoD. He will say it was passion, a matter of life or death- which was the case for many others, and why they were trying to work through to try and ensure it was as fair as possible.

@Potatwoah

Ouch, his voicemail is pretty vile, and proves he did actively want his supporters to apply pressure by contacting people at the MoD. He will say it was passion, a matter of life or death- which was the case for many others, and why they were trying to work through to try and ensure it was as fair as possible.

Yes he will say it was desperation but the MOD were evacuating 14,000 people I'm still not sure why he thought he should take priority and have all these direct conversations with ministers and advisors. Wallace said 'bollocks' to the many false allegations and farthing's supporters were outraged. Can't wait to see how 'I will destroy you' will be minimised and excused..

Wallace was blocking him getting out. I can understand his anger when he’s actually living in Afghanistan with Taliban next door, scared for himself and the women he works with. He said he’d expose Wallace for what he is, a man trying to stop him getting out. I can’t get worked up over a few swear words from a man fearing for his life and those he cares about.
Ben Wallace can’t keep his temper in check and his life isn’t at risk.

Yeah, I agree, it makes their defensiveness even more understandable imo. To have that to deal with amongst everyone else is horrible, and to get what you want via encouraging people to intimidate someone doing their job is pretty self centred despite the selfless spin. He still left without his staff who he claimed this was all about. I think most people who prioritise animals over people, and a white western man over the scores of eligible Afghans who supported us during the war are probably not overly arsed about his voice note; probably even find it amusing or inspiring.

[quote TooOldandTired]Wonder where all PF's cheerleaders are tonight. I originally thought he was just misguided but having been to the airport and seen the chaos and devastation that he continued to push for his animals to get out shows what he is really like. That phone message is pretty revealing too, I'm not surprised the MOD were sick of him.

Couldn't have put it better than Tom Tugendhat, he sounds close to tears in this clip.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1431548843070574597[/quote]
Tom didn't sound close to tears at all. How would Tom's interpreter get out if the Taliban weren't permitting any Afghans to pass?

That had nothing to do with the dogs, but perhaps it serves Tom to say that it does?

If Farthing's mass evacuation hadn't been blocked a week or so ago, they would have been out before Biden's paperwork change. The vets and their families + more Afghans at the airport would have got out.

This is deflection and a smear campaign. "Pen and his pets"...just total petulance from that department right to the end.

encouraging people to intimidate someone doing their job

"doing their jobs"
"only following orders"
Etc

'If Farthing's mass evacuation hadn't been blocked a week or so ago, they would have been out before Biden's paperwork change'

Biden's password could have changed at any point once terrorist threats were credible, time was running out. They should have gone to the airport tue wed without animals.

Again, people have left with the clothes on their back and little else what a luxury to have 200 dogs and cats and all the crates. It is sickening.

Revealed: Foreign Office ignored frantic pleas to help Afghans
Thousands of urgent messages from MPs and charities had not been read by the end of the UK evacuation from Afghanistan

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/28/revealed-foreign-office-ignored-pleas-help-afghans-mps-evacuation?CMP=ShareiOSApppOther&twitterr_impression=true

But of course it was the pets, loaded after every other evac flight had gone, that were the problem...

Pen probably made mistakes. He probably got himself into an entrenched position of which there was no easy way out. But to put the loss of others' lives on him is just ridiculous.

@JaniieJones you didn't have to wait long for it to be minimised!

@PicsInRed why would it serve him to say that? It is undeniable that this has wasted significant FDCO time.

Wallace was blocking him getting out Nobody blocked him getting out, as a UK passport holder he could have left at any time. The UK govt have been advising UK citizens to leave for months. Unlike the Afghan people who couldn't leave he could have gone at any time. In fact per his own twitter he travelled to the US to deliver a couple of dogs only a month ago.

Tom didn't sound close to tears at all. How would Tom's interpreter get out if the Taliban weren't permitting any Afghans to pass?

That had nothing to do with the dogs, but perhaps it serves Tom to say that it does?

If Farthing's mass evacuation hadn't been blocked a week or so ago, they would have been out before Biden's paperwork change. The vets and their families + more Afghans at the airport would have got out.

This is deflection and a smear campaign. "Pen and his pets"...just total petulance from that department right to the end.

Agree with all of this.

'you didn't have to wait long for it to be minimised!

Yes it is sadly all so very predictable.

His staff wouldn't have been top of the pile for processing, he at least got them their papers, but rightly so they weren't unfairly prioritised- why should they be? Blocking isn't the same as not pushing them to the front, private plane or not, it still took resource and other things to get stuff in order. Thousands of others, many who directly supported the military were the priority of the MoD for obvious reasons, because the affiliation with our government makes them the highest of targets; something he should well understand with his military experience. I really genuinely wish they had managed to get out, but I'm not sure why because he used social media as a platform to encourage people to scream and shout people are outraged he didn't get prioritised. If people support someone encouraging abuse to someone during probably the most stressful week of their careers (and the guy he was on about has spent plenty of time in afghan, he hasn't just been behind his computer his whole career), then that's pretty sad. I really hope his staff get out, as he has elevated them to be even higher value targets, and they are still plastered over his social media. At least he got back safely and his animals hey.