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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I being unreasonable work dillemaa

44 replies

Shamrockcandy · 27/08/2021 00:52

Advice needed for work dilemma, Am I being unreasonable?
I had a self-employed part time job for many years but due to covid it stopped.
So I was without income for several month and could not claim anyother support.
A few months ago I was asked to return but only for 1 day a week I also found another job in the same industry one day a week at a different location with a different company. So after 10 months I then had 2 days’ work and had some income.

My old company are now saying they want me to return to my normal hours. The old company I have worked at for many years. The new company took some getting used to and I now enjoy working there.
I have said to the old company I will do some extra days but do not want to commit to the amount of days I previously worked and suggested that they hire a new person for the days that I am committed at my new work place. My new work place was initially a temporary position but it has now been offered to become permanent with potential for growth.
The old company boss has said that he is annoyed that I am not ready to return and that I should show some loyalty to them and put them first. The two companies are not in competition with each other so there is no conflict of interest.
The covid pandemic has changed how I feel about life in general and gave me a wakeup call. I am enthusiastic about the new company/job and see the potential. It is much closer to home so no long distance commuting.
What I feel aggrieved about is that the old company ‘Boss’ said that I should not have taken the new job on if I wasn’t prepared to drop it as soon as he was ready to have me back. The old company Boss said I could have had an advance on my income to get me through the lean time when I had no income and that I could have made arrangements to gradually pay it back without interest. I said that I would not have liked to increase my debt waiting around for when ‘old company wanted me back’ He did not seem to understand my logic in this ……WHY would I want an advance and just wait around gaining debts…….
I am torn as I have worked there a long time and I do feel guilty as the old Boss is basically a decent person but I am amazed that he thinks I should have taken an advance of my earnings to later pay it back……….I would rather work and not have an advance looming over my head not knowing when I was going to return. I am now feeling confused on if I should take the plunge with new job or go back to old job with a nasty commute
What would you guys suggest ? Am I unreasonable

OP posts:
plodalong12 · 27/08/2021 00:56

No you’re not being unreasonable, the old boss is. How dare he even suggest that he is annoyed and you should show loyalty to him first? WTAF? Out of principle of that alone I would advance with new job.

bubblebubblebubbletrouble · 27/08/2021 00:58

Do what works for you as long as you are still happy/ok if original boss decides he wants consistency and employs someone for the whole period he wants the service for.
Do you need to consider IR35?

maddening · 27/08/2021 01:21

If he wanted employees he shouldn't have gone forba hiring self employed workers model

violetbunny · 27/08/2021 01:29

How can you be self employed if he is dictating so much?
For what it's worth, they can't just decide you're self employed, there is a strict definition of what counts.

Driftingblue · 27/08/2021 01:35

Do not put your income in the hands of the person who thinks you should just sit around penniless waiting to work for him. Keep working for the other company. If they can’t give you enough hours, look for additional work elsewhere. Don’t quit the old company until you have something, but I wouldn’t keep working there.

MauveMagnolia · 27/08/2021 01:43

If you are self employed you fin it have a boss you have a client. In order to meet the self employment requirements you can determine working patterns etc

Why didn’t you claim the government COVID support for self employed?

Original poster
Shamrockcandy · 27/08/2021 01:59

00:56plodalong12 my thoughts also I was flabbergasted

00:58bubblebubblebubbletrouble
01:29violetbunny

Usually in my industry there are usually more than one person at each location that undertakes my type of work...there is another person on different days but I seem to be more in demand...my industry had to dramatically reduce output due to pandemic but company was fully supported without any financial losses.

01:35Driftingblue
I was absolutely miffed , I could have carried out another job role but they hired another new person ....I was equally able to do the other role and would have done so earning less money but they didn't agree to this...if they had I would not have looked for new contracts.

Thanks all for input it helps to have the thoughts from others...... I don't like letting people down but feel I was the one who was let down....but blinkered people often do not see reasoning.

Thank you all for the replies 🙏

OP posts:
Original poster
Shamrockcandy · 27/08/2021 02:02

01:43MauveMagnolia

3.8 million were unable to claim government support

OP posts:
gofg · 27/08/2021 02:42

Your old boss is a dick. What I have learned from many years of working is that employers love to bang on about "loyalty", but it's usually a one way thing.

BootsScootsAndToots · 27/08/2021 03:02

They left you with no money and hired someone else to do a job you were capable of??

That would be it for me. And I'd be giving this example of how HE didn't show you any loyalty.

That's unbelievable. I'm angry for you!

dudsville · 27/08/2021 03:07

"Do not put your income in the hands of the person who thinks you should just sit around penniless waiting to work for him."

This. @Driftingblue is wise. Loyalty is not a reason for basing a financial decision.

gobackanddoitproperly · 27/08/2021 03:10

There is absolutely no reason you should be loyal to any company, beyond being paid for doing what you are required to do. A company is not a person with feelings. It is an entity run by people who want to make it profitable. You may be useful in that regard, until you’re not, at which point the company (and the people who run it) will show no loyalty to you.

Jent13c · 27/08/2021 04:57

After a shock and a long time without income you finally have the power here. If he really wanted loyalty he shouldn't have dropped you like a hot stone, bit too late to make all these suggestions of how he could have helped you out...he obviously didn't when you actually needed it. You have seen in person how much 'loyalty' he has.

Personally if the 2 contracts were working for me I would continue, makes sense to keep both options open when you are self employed. If that doesn't work for him then you may see old contract ending but it doesn't really matter because you have new contract. And new found confidence that you don't have to stick in same old job and take nonsense because you owe them something. He is not your boss and if the new hours he is requesting don't work for you just say as per our contract these are the hours I'm available to work. Its his problem to worry about hiring other people; don't get drawn in.

Cattitudes · 27/08/2021 05:06

Have you worked out what your hourly pay is after considering the time and money spent on the commute to job 1? Personally I would be winding down job 1 in favour of job 2. People move on and especially after 18 months in which he was not loyal to you.

Frenchfancy · 27/08/2021 05:43

You are self employed. You are the boss, they are the client. You are in a far better situation with 2 clients rather than one.

Aprilx · 27/08/2021 05:54

You say you are self employed, so act like it. You get to decide what business you take on, stop referring to clients as “boss” and “employer”.

IWentAwayIStayedAway · 27/08/2021 06:38

Are you really self employed if youd one contract with set days?

girlmom21 · 27/08/2021 06:53

Tell him these are your new terms and you either work the days you're available or you don't. Make it clear you're freelance/a contractor with other clients.

timeisnotaline · 27/08/2021 06:57

If you valued me that much you’d have hired me for role x. Why didnt you? I can’t forget those months of earning nothing, and feel much more financially secure with another job and won’t be dropping those days. I know you say you’d have advanced me money, but again you could have actually offered me a job! Also, probably much like yourself, I’d prefer to earn an income than accrue debt.

Icepinkeskimo · 27/08/2021 07:04

I can only echo what others have said, your self employed and as such your own boss!

I'm sorry but I also have to bring this up, be very careful because as the hmrc take a very dim view of the self employed working for only one client! It is viewed as an employer getting all the perks without having to pay any NI contributions and everything else that goes with PAYE. The first "client" droning on about "loyalty" it's a two way street, he had ample opportunity to offer you a paye position but to tight fisted to.

Don't put your eggs in one basket your the boss!

Doyoumind · 27/08/2021 07:05

Is this hairdressing or similar?

Just go with what will work best for you. You don't owe your old boss anything.

Etinox · 27/08/2021 07:14

Old boss has a brass neck. He had you come it’s all the benefits to him and none for you for 10 years and now wants loyalty from you!ShockAngry
I’m guessing you didn’t get furlough pay?

Brefugee · 27/08/2021 07:20

gosh. If you were self-employed working for only one client that puts you in a vulnerable position, as you found out. And there is a case, i think, to make that you weren't self-employed at all.

So if old boss wants "loyalty" he needed to have earned it by having loyalty to you. It goes both ways. what he wants is the reliability of an employee without having the responsibilities that goes with it. You might want to point that out to him. (that's an assumption. Could be her)

As a contractor you are perfectly within your rights, and moreso reasonable, to offer old boss the hours that you want to be available to them. You are reasonable and within your rights to offer new boss the times/hours you can be available to them. And for both bosses the option to raise/reduce your hours is by discussion and may not be demanded by anyone.

And if you wanted to add clients 3, 4 and 5 to that, as long as you can do all the work and are not contractually forbidden to work with them you can do that too.

Good luck!

KihoBebiluPute · 27/08/2021 07:27

Yanbu at all. The old company treated you like dirt and is expecting you to be grateful for it. The fact that they employ on a "self employed" basis (a dodgy tactic to avoid National Insurance and other employee protections) speaks volumes. They are not good people to work for. When the pandemic struck they left you high and dry. If they had been decent employers in the first place and had you employed on a regular contract all along then you would have qualified for furlough. They are now reaping the fruits of their poor practice - you do not owe them any loyalty whatsoever and they have no right to be annoyed about it. Self employed people have every right to choose to accept or decline work as it suits them, and to take on work from multiple businesses. You haven't done anything wrong. And of course you are quite right that their offer to loan you an advance on future pay to get you through lockdown was not at all appealing.

When decent, ethical companies need to have an arrangement with a self-employed person (eg a consultant) and they want to be sure that they will maintain the availability they will need for future work whilst not having any work for them right now, the normal thing to do is to have a "retainer" arrangement whereby for an ongoing retainer fee, the person earmarks a proportion of their time for that business and guarantees not to take on other work to the point that they would have to turn down the request when the company does need them. So your old "employer" could have paid you a retainer if they wanted you to keep availability for them. But they didn't do that either, they just left you to sink or swim according to your own abilities. You got through fine without them because you are talented and capable. Now you do what is best for you, and let them reap the consequences of their actions.