Am I being unreasonable work dillemaa

[Shamrockcandy]

Advice needed for work dilemma, Am I being unreasonable?
I had a self-employed part time job for many years but due to covid it stopped.
So I was without income for several month and could not claim anyother support.
A few months ago I was asked to return but only for 1 day a week I also found another job in the same industry one day a week at a different location with a different company. So after 10 months I then had 2 days’ work and had some income.

My old company are now saying they want me to return to my normal hours. The old company I have worked at for many years. The new company took some getting used to and I now enjoy working there.
I have said to the old company I will do some extra days but do not want to commit to the amount of days I previously worked and suggested that they hire a new person for the days that I am committed at my new work place. My new work place was initially a temporary position but it has now been offered to become permanent with potential for growth.
The old company boss has said that he is annoyed that I am not ready to return and that I should show some loyalty to them and put them first. The two companies are not in competition with each other so there is no conflict of interest.
The covid pandemic has changed how I feel about life in general and gave me a wakeup call. I am enthusiastic about the new company/job and see the potential. It is much closer to home so no long distance commuting.
What I feel aggrieved about is that the old company ‘Boss’ said that I should not have taken the new job on if I wasn’t prepared to drop it as soon as he was ready to have me back. The old company Boss said I could have had an advance on my income to get me through the lean time when I had no income and that I could have made arrangements to gradually pay it back without interest. I said that I would not have liked to increase my debt waiting around for when ‘old company wanted me back’ He did not seem to understand my logic in this ……WHY would I want an advance and just wait around gaining debts…….
I am torn as I have worked there a long time and I do feel guilty as the old Boss is basically a decent person but I am amazed that he thinks I should have taken an advance of my earnings to later pay it back……….I would rather work and not have an advance looming over my head not knowing when I was going to return. I am now feeling confused on if I should take the plunge with new job or go back to old job with a nasty commute
What would you guys suggest ? Am I unreasonable

Boss from your first job is being U.

Sounds like you might well have been a worker or employee for tax and employment rights purposes and were ‘falsely’ self employed by the organisation to reduce costs, to your detriment.

@MauveMagnolia

If you are self employed you fin it have a boss you have a client. In order to meet the self employment requirements you can determine working patterns etc

Why didn’t you claim the government COVID support for self employed?

Ha ha ha “govt support for self employed”. I wish. Not everyone could claim that you know. I lost 49.5% of my income due to my industry being completely shutdown but because it wasn’t 50% I wasn’t eligible. I still lost that money though and had the same bills to pay…..

Your boss didn't show you any loyalty when he dropped you during the pandemic, it goes both ways. Even if he had you can still choose. Do what is best for you

DH lost all his work the moment the first lockdown happened. ALL of it. DH managed to persuade the Council to put our CT on hold but we're paying it now on top of our usual CT. we couldn't claim a thing. No Govt help available to us at all; in fact the stopped dh's WTC and said he had to pay back what we'd had. We're still waiting for that shoe to drop.... we paid for food using my PIP, bills paid by dh depleting his drawdown pension.

He's not your boss or employer. If he was you'd be a PAYE employee and he'd gave paid you furlough.

Please get it in your head that you are self employed and he is a client.

He showed you no 'loyalty' when he hired someone else to do the job you could've done.

Classic example of your boss wanting it both ways, then him being annoyed when he can’t. Loyalty is a 2 way street and not a 1 way street. YANBU l don’t think. Do what suits you best

So old company boss shown no loyalty to you but you're supposed to show loyalty to them. I'd be telling him that loyalty works both ways & he'd shown none to me so I was taking steps to ensure I'd never be reliant on one income stream again.

As an aside if you only worked for that company then I think that the inland revenue would deem you an employee by default. I'd recommend going online & checking it out.

Than you all some fabulous replies. I was not feeling articulate last night and used the phrase "old boss" instead of client ....just an industry thing....
When I started with old client I had several contracts and they were weedled down.... I was excluded on a tecnicality as had incomes from other sources in the last 3 years...so basically I lost 70 % overnight.

FatLadySang
I think you will understand where I am coming from

Dozer
KihoBebiluPute
You both make some excellent points

Oblomov21
I see your point but it was because I was feeling tired and I should have worded it client

EL8888
I agree with you completely

StripeyDeckchair
I also agree loyalty is a two way street......

I was feeling a bit brow beaten when speaking to "old client" and could not understand why he didn't see my point......... he did not have any income loss whatsoever as his company was 100% supported....

Sometimes I get things wrong and just wanted to throw it out there for the opinions of others.......and it seems you all mostly have the same opinion......... old client is a selfish "D" wants everything his own way........ it looks like I will be moving on ..... I feel uncomfortable that I was made to feel guilty for earning a living and annoyed I am expected to drop everything now "old client" wants me back...... " old client" gave a new person a job that I could have done during lockdown......He didn't think of me then......... Thank you all you have absolutely helped to get this clear in my head. :-)

YANBU. And for the record old boss is not a decent bloke. He is an entitled arrogant prick

@Shamrockcandy

Advice needed for work dilemma, Am I being unreasonable? I had a self-employed part time job for many years but due to covid it stopped. So I was without income for several month and could not claim anyother support. A few months ago I was asked to return but only for 1 day a week I also found another job in the same industry one day a week at a different location with a different company. So after 10 months I then had 2 days’ work and had some income. My old company are now saying they want me to return to my normal hours. The old company I have worked at for many years. The new company took some getting used to and I now enjoy working there. I have said to the old company I will do some extra days but do not want to commit to the amount of days I previously worked and suggested that they hire a new person for the days that I am committed at my new work place. My new work place was initially a temporary position but it has now been offered to become permanent with potential for growth. The old company boss has said that he is annoyed that I am not ready to return and that I should show some loyalty to them and put them first. The two companies are not in competition with each other so there is no conflict of interest. The covid pandemic has changed how I feel about life in general and gave me a wakeup call. I am enthusiastic about the new company/job and see the potential. It is much closer to home so no long distance commuting. What I feel aggrieved about is that the old company ‘Boss’ said that I should not have taken the new job on if I wasn’t prepared to drop it as soon as he was ready to have me back. The old company Boss said I could have had an advance on my income to get me through the lean time when I had no income and that I could have made arrangements to gradually pay it back without interest. I said that I would not have liked to increase my debt waiting around for when ‘old company wanted me back’ He did not seem to understand my logic in this ……WHY would I want an advance and just wait around gaining debts……. I am torn as I have worked there a long time and I do feel guilty as the old Boss is basically a decent person but I am amazed that he thinks I should have taken an advance of my earnings to later pay it back……….I would rather work and not have an advance looming over my head not knowing when I was going to return. I am now feeling confused on if I should take the plunge with new job or go back to old job with a nasty commute What would you guys suggest ? Am I unreasonable

Let's get this right. You worked for company 1 on a self-employed basis? So they hadn't offered you actual employment, which would then have meant they could have kept you on through the furlough scheme. Loyalty begins with actually being part of the company.

He then offered you more work, but only a little, so obviously you needed to find other work to supplement that. Did he indicate at any point "and we will be able to offer you more hours from September"? No? Then why would you be dropping the other company?

If he wanted you to put his company first, then he needed to offer you secure employment in the first place. If he wanted you to prioritise him after the pandemic, he needed to offer a proper retainer and some guarantee of hours. Otherwise, you have to go where the employment is, and if that means you discover the grass is greener elsewhere, so be it.

Be polite, offer to help train someone new. But you don''t owe them the loyalty of an employee.

Also check out with company 2 what the prospects are for more work. If they know that company 1 is angling for you dropping them, then they might be willing to counteroffer with more hours at their place.

@Shamrockcandy

01:43MauveMagnolia

3.8 million were unable to claim government support

I know I was one because I earned over £50k

You don’t seem to
Understand self employment and IR 35 and the legal requirements

Nothing to be confused about, old boss is out of line. Can you imagine asking him at the time for a loan against possible future employment, when there was zero actual employment? I might try this with a client just for the laugh it would provide everyone (and if I never wanted to see them again 🤣). It's bizarre.
Anyway, you said it yourself - new company has plenty of hours, potential - and you like it.
Do not contemplate for a nano second that because old boss has suggested this option, it's on anyway normal! With logic like this you might find when you work there now he'd like to pay you in the future Run, run for the hills! (Well, to your new job anyway).

KihoBebiluPute

You have hit the nail on the head and I appreciate your thoughts......
I was left high and dry .

StripeyDeckchair
I agree with what you are saying and understand my first post looked like I worked for only one person......I actually had work from other people in the company ~ work that others did not want to do , the others during the pandemic did not generate my type of work so it was shelved for more important contracts or they did it themselves....now they are busy again they want me to step back in and do the things that they do not have the time and patience for.......I used to bill the owner and he billed out what I did to the other consultants..... They now have a flury and can send those jobs out to a contractor..... At the time it was difficult and now they can shift it back to me........

PopcornMuncher
my thoughts to

lanthanum
Yes it was very difficult starting in a new environment and I now do think the grass is greener I actually do not want to leave on a bad note as the job that I did helped the person more than the consultants I was doing it for.... think small fry to the consultants referring the work out to me.....but important to the people I was actually helping ( not the other consultants) they get paid for what I do and I get a percentage from them.
Also new company have already offered me hours/contracts .... I initially declined as I had a loyalty to the small fry people that they felt could go on hold during pandemic or that they could take on while things were awkward.........HOWEVER I have now changed my mind and had a meeting today ...... They have not pressurised me only told me they would like me on board and understand if I decline....This has made me feel so much better and I know what I am going to do.....

MauveMagnolia
I understand that you have worked and paid your taxes on your income but was excluded unlike employed people on the same income.....my thought on this make me angry as you are a tax payer in a higher bracket than myself BUT you were excluded because you earned more money...but they still took you tax and laughed in your face like they did to all the other tax payers who fell short of the criteria.... They took the money like they did for all the excluded those on low incomes who suplimented by working self employed in additional businesses, people claiming pensions after military service, so much was wrong and left out of main stream news.....

Nayday
You made me laugh ... I am going to ask him if he would like that arrangement

Just want to say a big fat thank you....I have not posted many times on mumsnet....and I actually didn't know how to use the site and link replies... I think I have made a shambles and have just realised I can press the dots to reply.
To all those who think I may have ignored their messages ~ I really haven't each and every message has been looked at and I feel really good about all the responses- I think that is unusual on mumsnet.

I visited a friend who has also given me sound advice, I am taking it all on board and will be acting in my best interest. I am obviously worried what will be said to me after I say I will not be able to continue with the past arrangement .I know I will be shouted at and made to feel guilty and it will be difficult for next few months. I have been treated like a door mat and I can see that.

@Shamrockcandy

Just want to say a big fat thank you....I have not posted many times on mumsnet....and I actually didn't know how to use the site and link replies... I think I have made a shambles and have just realised I can press the dots to reply. To all those who think I may have ignored their messages ~ I really haven't each and every message has been looked at and I feel really good about all the responses- I think that is unusual on mumsnet.

I visited a friend who has also given me sound advice, I am taking it all on board and will be acting in my best interest. I am obviously worried what will be said to me after I say I will not be able to continue with the past arrangement .I know I will be shouted at and made to feel guilty and it will be difficult for next few months. I have been treated like a door mat and I can see that.

For what it’s worth I have never seen a vote on AIBU with such a high percentage voting for YANBU, so you are definitely in the right from here!

You may be worried and you may be (unreasonably) shouted at but you should absolutely NOT feel guilty, and remember: just because you may be leaving does NOT mean they get to treat you like dirt in the upcoming time before you leave. You may be only an employee/contracted person to them but remember, above that you are a human being first and shouldn’t put up with any crap from, what sounds like, a useless boss.

Thank you , I actually feel very supported as I doubted my own logic...

I should not feel unnerved, apprehensive , frightened to call it a day...... I do, but I actually know I am not being unreasonable...and I will update when the deed is done

Your 'Boss'?

No, he's not your boss. You are self-employed and he is your client so you get to call the shots on this one, not him.

:51Shamrockcandy

Thank you , I actually feel very supported as I doubted my own logic...

I should not feel unnerved, apprehensive , frightened to call it a day...... I do, but I actually know I am not being unreasonable...and I will update when the deed is done
OP’s posts: See all

I know I will be shouted at and made to feel guilty

What? Don't stand for that sort of nonsense.