This Pen Farthing guy

[TheGenealogist]

The bloke with the animal shelter in Kabul.

Refusing to leave unless he can take ALL of his 60 odd staff and ALL of his 200+ cats and dogs with him. Expecting the government to make special rules for him and his friends.

Getting people out - understandable. The Taliban aren't going to look kindly on people who have translated for the military, or "collaborated" in other ways. But staff at an animal shelter?

And as for the refusing to leave without the animals and making this all out to be the UK government's fault? For not falling over themselves to arrange transport for a bunch of ownerless animals nobody wants when there are human beings in fear of their lives?

What is this guy playing at?

“The next question is always "but how long can we really stay" but really the answer to that was that there was no need to self impose a deadline, or to voluntarily create this nightmare.”

Absolutely, once the decision was made to go in all those years ago (wrongly in my opinion back then), they absolutely should have stayed the course.

It didn’t take an expert to foresee what could happen...

@powershowerforanhour

*What's to stop them?

Why not?

They never gave a fuck before what anyone thought of what they did.*

Last year it fitted their agenda to come across as blood spattered batshit maternity massacring psychos. The Afghan population were suitably terrified and the Taliban met with little resistance as they swept across the country. Now they have to hold power. Sometimes it will be the iron fist in the razor wire and nail studded glove, sometimes the iron fist in the velvet glove. Whatever suits the target audienc.. I've no doubt that they are callous bastards who give no more of a toss about anyone else than they ever did but their methods may adapt as they have to govern a country.

They are ideologues. Religious extremists.

They were in charge for years before. I can't see why not now.

They have already said women should stay in and not go to work for a uselessly flimsy reason.

The other point is that those who join them I would think are similar to Isis. A hatred of 'the West'. Capitalism decadence etc etc. I don't think being reasonable would go down at all well with their supporters generally tbh

Afghanistan also was the centre of heroin production (are the taleban ideologically opposed to making money that way? No idea tbh) and that is worth vast amounts of money.

Plus there's a huge fortune in metals etc just waiting to be mined. Maybe they can agree with others who are not seen as the enemy to tap those resources.

@TooBigForMyBoots

What is this guy playing at?

Hes trying to save as many lives as he can, however he can @TheGenealogist.

Not sure if anybody has shared this yet :)

www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-the-government-must-to-do-everything-possible-to-assist-in-getting-pen-farthing-his-staff-and-all-his-animals-out-of-kabul-asap?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_30449413_en-GB%3A6&recruiter=11122050&recruited_by_id=9bfb11f0-cf15-012f-b940-404067ca6a7a&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=f1b54fc930d744b7a164cb20089cafe0

Looks like Pen , his helpers and all the animals are flying very soon, Fingers crossed it all goes well.

He should be transporting people to the airport

This 'argument' is ridiculous. People are not stuck there because they lack the transport or means to get to the airport. Anyone in Kabul that was desperate to get to the airport would already be there, Kabul is not that big. The problem. is accessing the airport due to the huge amount of desperate people already gathered there, and the time it takes to process the necessary checks and paperwork. Even if he did gather random people to fill the transport rather than animals, the result would be that they would be stuck at the end of the queue in horrendous conditions with all the others there. He does not have the authority to choose who is allowed to leave. He cannot demand the rescue of people he does not know and has no connection with. Unlike some, he is intelligent enough to know that he could arrive with 20 busloads of women and children but it would not change their fate one iota. Bombarding the public by SM could possibly change the fate of him, his animals and his staff but the fate of those unknown to him is beyond his jurisdiction. His influence may hopefully save his staff, he has a duty of care to them and can prove that they worked for him and are therefore in imminent danger thus satisfying the criteria needed to seek asylum. He is as powerless as we are to save the lives of people he doesn't know. He simply would not be allowed to arrive at the airport with a bunch of strangers and demand they are fast tracked to the front of the queue and onto the plane he has arranged. And even if he could, he would not be able to put those people into the hold where the animals are kept.

He is NOT draining the time or resources of the military in any way, on the contrary, he has arranged and paid for his own transport and plane, rehearsed the swift loading of the animals when/ if they get there. Animal charities have pledged to pay for the quarantine, boarding and upkeep of the animals if they ever do get here.

This has all been said to you before. Every 'argument' you have presented has been discredited by others, yet still, you bang on with your self righteous indignation. As a PP said, if you want to critisise anyone why not direct it at those who have caused this shit show of a situation rather than the poor fucker trying everything he can to get out of the mess they created. Blame the perpetrators, not the victims.

I still don't understand how he's going to get so many people and animals through to the airport.

The taleban are not allowing individuals with the correct paperwork through.

Unless he's already there? I'm guessing that's the case.

Looks like Pen , his helpers and all the animals are flying very soon,

I am keeping everything crossed.

Given how long and problematic their rescue has been despite the amount of noise and fuss he has created, I suspect his staff and animals would have had no chance of getting out of there without his help and advocacy.

If his staff and animals survive this it will be thanks to the enormous effort he put into securing their way out, by refusing to leave without them and the amount of noise he made. . He will have saved so many lives, not just the animals, but his 70 staff and the 130 others he offered seats on the plane too. Others can minimise that achievement and criticise him for that if they like but I certainly won't be.

Of course you can put people in the hold.

It's not a sodding summer holiday.

Strip the insides and load up.

So many situations in the past when people have taken all sorts of risks to escape. And it's recorded as brave.

I dunno. Cats and dogs released will have a better chance than a lot of these people.

But again it's just a different POV.

It's more than 70 staff isn't it, I googled earlier as someone said I should and he said he was worried about their children esp daughters and it was important to get them out.

And thinking about it he must be as I don't think many parents would leave their children behind in these circs.

@NiceGerbil

Of course you can put people in the hold.

It's not a sodding summer holiday.

Strip the insides and load up.

So many situations in the past when people have taken all sorts of risks to escape. And it's recorded as brave.

I dunno. Cats and dogs released will have a better chance than a lot of these people.

But again it's just a different POV.

I think you’ve said this a couple of times.

I don’t have intricate knowledge of plane interiors, but I think a few people have tried to explain.

It’s not just a case of people understanding that they can’t move about if they’re in the hold. I’d guess a small part is that they’re not s3cured down - ie during takeoff, turbulence etc.

I’d imagine the hold is set up to securely strap down animal crates, luggage, etc etc. But not to strap down humans. I guess, if everyone had the luxury of time and forward planning (obviously seriously lacking by many countries), then cargo holds could MAYBE have been adapted. But they haven’t.

Which leaves us with someone who has funded a plane, to ensure safety for his staff, plus 100+ other seats and with animals in the hold.

The bloody sad thing is that, at the end of the day, whether he succeeds or not will not make a blind bit of difference to the bloody horror that’s just beginning there.

He is trying every avenue possible for his staff and suitable animals. If some, or every other, country around the world made it possible (despite the risks) to allow humans in the cargo hold - then I would absolutely support that first. But right now, it’s not possible.

At least he isn’t charging 6.5k for the extra seats he has available on the plane - that is truly abhorrent and I’m going to focus my attention on that sorry excuse for a human being.

Why can't children go in the crates?

As I said earlier. A crate that can hold a large dog could probably hold a child with a couple of younger siblings. Babies hardly take up any room.

I mean I understand that the underlying feelings aren't going to meet in the middle.

But this whole animals can go in the hold but Def not people. We are animals.

The point is that getting the animals out feels important to some people and that's fine. All of this is just a difference in how people feel.

Sky News reporting that resources ARE being diverted from saving people to saving Mr Farthings pets:

The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.

@NiceGerbil

Of course you can put people in the hold.

It's not a sodding summer holiday.

Strip the insides and load up.

So many situations in the past when people have taken all sorts of risks to escape. And it's recorded as brave.

I dunno. Cats and dogs released will have a better chance than a lot of these people.

But again it's just a different POV.

I think they're more likely to be used as target practice and dog fighting given the history of why the shelter was set up in the first place.

@NiceGerbil

Why can't children go in the crates?

As I said earlier. A crate that can hold a large dog could probably hold a child with a couple of younger siblings. Babies hardly take up any room.

I mean I understand that the underlying feelings aren't going to meet in the middle.

But this whole animals can go in the hold but Def not people. We are animals.

The point is that getting the animals out feels important to some people and that's fine. All of this is just a difference in how people feel.

I understand the sentiment, but it’s not going to happen. And who the hell would put a baby, in a crate, on a flight where the hold can’t be accessed during flight?

Don’t get me wrong, I want everyone out of there, but the vitriol and “alternative options” bollocks on here is just ridiculous.

Everyone on here, opposing this one flight, should be firing off communications left, right and centre to everyone possible to state that humans should be evacuated in the hold of every single plane taking off.

If that could be achieved then that would be bloody fantastic.

But it won’t be achieved. That’s the cold, hard fact.

Again. One flight. Funded with no cost to taxpayers. Getting all his staff out, plus whatever extra seats are on the plane. With animals in the hold. And the hold CANNOT safely take humans. But yes, let’s demonise that person.

In the end it feels like a strange situation.

The situation at the airport is chaos.

The taleban are not letting many people through at all, ones with all the paperwork.

I think they must all have got through earlier because I think the chances of the taleban letting them all through is surely very slim.

He talked about the staff I think 70 people or so but also his fears for their children. Presumably they are in the group as well. Not many parents would leave their children in this situation.

The press have given a lot of airtime and there is a lot of support from the public to get him and the staff and presumably their children and all the animals out.

The clock is ticking though. Biden has given a stop date and the taleban have said ok fine. That's when you're all gone.

USA have said they are focusing on getting their personnel out now.

I just don't see how it's going to work unless they're all there already.

If he gets them out the staff kids and ok animals rather than children then at this point great

I suspect those at the airport won't last long once the Americans have left on their last flight.

The whole situation is appalling and biden said some really silly things. His press secretary on the telly the other day fucking hell. Her focus was on words used, spin.

It's all so dishonest.

The other thing I noticed is that USA biden spokes people keep saying. We will evacuate all Americans who want to leave. What the hell does that mean? Why are they positioning it that way.

A whole nation of people are utterly fucked whichever way it's looked at. It doesn't bear thinking about.

'I understand the sentiment, but it’s not going to happen. And who the hell would put a baby, in a crate, on a flight where the hold can’t be accessed during flight?'

Loads of people in Afghanistan. My DDs aren't babies but I'd send them off in the hold if possible to get them out.

Babies can go in arms of older children.

Why wouldn't you get your kids out any way possible?

@NiceGerbil

'I understand the sentiment, but it’s not going to happen. And who the hell would put a baby, in a crate, on a flight where the hold can’t be accessed during flight?'

Loads of people in Afghanistan. My DDs aren't babies but I'd send them off in the hold if possible to get them out.

Babies can go in arms of older children.

Why wouldn't you get your kids out any way possible?

Yes, I get the desperation that one would do whatever possible to get anyone out safely.

The sad thing is, the logistics don’t make that possible.

Anyone would get their kids out if possible. But, if the set-up isn’t right, then it’s not going to happen. No country would expose themselves to that risk. Rightly or wrongly, that country would be vilified for transporting humans in unsafe conditions.

If animals die in the hold then it’s sad, but that’s at the risk of owners/rescues/charities etc.

If people/children/babies die in the hold, that’s an whole other level.

I'm not sure about that TBH.

In the past those who have tried to get people out of crisis have done all sorts and not always succeeded. They're generally seen as heroes.

Anyway.

They must all already be at the airport right? No way will the taleban let a convoy that big through.

And he spoke about the children of his staff. Presumably all that paperwork has been done. So that's going to take up s load of spaces as well. No one knows how many.

If he pulls this off and gets staff kids and animals through into the airport that will be incredible tbh.

I think they must already be there.

Just watching the news.

Thousands still arriving desperate to get out.

Those with paperwork struggling to get through.

Taleban also not letting people through.

Imminent threat of attacks on the people there/ airport/ aircraft by Isis k.

It's just horrific.

This guy and the staff and their kids and the animals must already be through. I can't see how they will get there otherwise.

@NiceGerbil He talked about the staff I think 70 people or so but also his fears for their children. Presumably they are in the group as well. Not many parents would leave their children in this situation.

Been following this for a while. I think it was around 25/30 staff and their families, so in total around 70. The staff, including trained vets, all have jobs lined up and they have raised funds so they won’t be a burden to tax payer.

He’ll fill the rest of the seats with British passport holders. In addition, the incoming privately funded plane is loaded with supplies for Afghans at the airport.

Agree, it would be great to get people in the hold of planes. But it looks like the problem was with that processing hence why so many planes were leaving half empty.

They must already be at the airport right?

The people could have got out on other flights. The animals even if flights have space.

If they are there then I can't see they would not at least put the people on any place with space

If they aren't there I just can't see how they are going to get there.

Why fill the other seats with British passport holders? How are they going to pick them out from the crowds? It's mayhem there. Why not just take whoever is there waiting or a load of children?

I don't get any of this. It doesn't make much sense tbh in terms of logistics etc.

Think the mayhem is outside the airport. I read that it was getting inside the airport through the gate that was the hardest part, there’s a bottleneck of thousands, but that inside it was relatively well ordered. That the hold up for most people once inside was the processing of paperwork hence the planes in the early part of the week leaving half empty.

Happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge though!

The taleban control the roads area and aren't letting a lot of people through.

Yes getting into the airport is going to be very hard esp with what will need to be trucks etc. I think they must be there already as otherwise I can't see how they're going to get there

For those doubting that parents wouldbe prepared to travel/put their kids in the hold. Every day people pay to be smuggled in the backs if lorries, put to sea in tiny, unseaworthy boats to try and get to the Canary Islands etc. Give it a few weeks and we will hear of people escaping Afghanistan on far more uncomfortable and dangerous ways.