This Pen Farthing guy

[TheGenealogist]

The bloke with the animal shelter in Kabul.

Refusing to leave unless he can take ALL of his 60 odd staff and ALL of his 200+ cats and dogs with him. Expecting the government to make special rules for him and his friends.

Getting people out - understandable. The Taliban aren't going to look kindly on people who have translated for the military, or "collaborated" in other ways. But staff at an animal shelter?

And as for the refusing to leave without the animals and making this all out to be the UK government's fault? For not falling over themselves to arrange transport for a bunch of ownerless animals nobody wants when there are human beings in fear of their lives?

What is this guy playing at?

@wewereliars

Once more, for the hard of thinking, people cannot be put in the hold, where the animals will be put.

For the harder of thinking, there's more to it than that.

@wewereliars

Once more, for the hard of thinking, people cannot be put in the hold, where the animals will be put.

And also for the hard of thinking - his small plane takes up a slot that could save 600 people.

Ricky Gervais thinks they should be allowed to leave. Big trigger warning on this article, graphic animal abuse. www.independent.co.uk/voices/dogs-cats-afghanistan-rescue-ricky-gervais-b1908479.html

Do we know for sure this plane would take the place of a cargo plane? I thought there was a shortage of those as well.

@Tara336

So Pen Farthing sets up a rescue centre, employs locals, trains locals and then raises the money to get all of his staff, the families and animals out of an absolutely terrifying situation and people think he’s unreasonable? He’s a decent human being trying to do the right thing, it’s as simple as that. I applauded him for that. This thread really does show how absolutely unpleasant, selfish and I caring some people can really be. All lives have value not just human ones.

You are another one missing the whole point of Plane with so many people on it, versus plane with more people on it.

Look at it this way- you have taxi waiting at the rank.
One takes 6 people, one takes 4.
All people in the queue want a lift. There is a gun to their head.

Do you let the taxi with 4 seats go ahead of the one with 6?

@TheGenealogist

Would make an amazing film

I'm sure he has an agent already on the case. With someone earnest and worthy like Eddie Redmayne lined up to play brave, selfless Pen, the hero.

...note that he wrote most of his own Wikipedia article and regularly updates it with his latest relationship status en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_Farthing

TheGenealogist's opinions are as valid as those of anyone else.

I hadn't heard of this before reading the thread. I have read all the op's posts but not everybody else's. For anyone who hasn't seen a news report, here it is:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/25/hope-ex-marine-rescue-cats-dogs-animals-kabul-paul-farthing

the posters who purport to believe in love and peace, man

I’ve not seen a single poster purporting to believe in love and peace, man.

Also, if swearing offends your delicate sensibilities, MN is probably not the place for you.

Objectively there's no reason why this guy and his team should be prioritised over anyone else; subjectively I wouldn't be able to look myself in the eye if I got to safety and left my team and the animals behind. I do worry that we live in an age where the people who have the most photogenic stories and who are most shameless about exploiting social media are the people most likely to be helped - GoFundMe, etc. - but I can understand the burden of responsibility in this desperate situation. He had to manipulate social media because he was unlikely to get much official help for an animal shelter. The Taliban take a dim view of dogs as pets (they'd probably like Mumsnet) and the shelter could have been legitimately at risk.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Ricky Gervais thinks they should be allowed to leave. Big trigger warning on this article, graphic animal abuse. www.independent.co.uk/voices/dogs-cats-afghanistan-rescue-ricky-gervais-b1908479.html

Do we know for sure this plane would take the place of a cargo plane? I thought there was a shortage of those as well.

That’s a good question. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that’s the case. But I’m far from an expert on this

I do know the government caused the delay to mean they are attempting to leave now.

@wewereliars

Once more, for the hard of thinking, people cannot be put in the hold, where the animals will be put.

Once more, his privately chartered plane will take up capacity at an already overflowing airport that could be used by a plane with much larger capacity. Pens cause is valid, but his narrative Is with the sole intent to further his cause, and is therefore highly biased. The people on the ground at the airport are so busy trying to sort out this sh*tstorm that you won’t always hear their side of the story to get the balance.

What I do think is that when there is competition for runway space, you don't allow a private plane to take off with 200 people or whatever, when a military aircraft that can lift many more people could use that slot.

But everything points to the planes capable of holding 600 are leaving nowhere near full. So Pens plane holding 300 is no different.

peacrock please elucidate ,oh wise one

I wonder what hasn't been done because this is taking up so much time and energy. If they'd just let him go quickly to start with, I wonder if Ben Wallace etc could have then used subsequent time and energy on something else that would have benefitted the situation a bit more vs spending so much time on this, then clearing the plane to leave, anyway.

If flying out 300 humans and 200 animals is 'less preferable' than flying out a (potential) 600 people then surely the one thing that is even worse than that is spending all this time and energy on it only for it to haoppen anyway, rather than just letting the plane go and focussing on the rest of the job of getting as many out as quickly as possible.

Once more, his privately chartered plane will take up capacity at an already overflowing airport that could be used by a plane with much larger capacity

Do you actually know that to be true, or are you just assuming?

Do we know for sure this plane would take the place of a cargo plane? I thought there was a shortage of those as well.

I'd like to know the answer to this too. Also even if a much larger plane took the place of Pen's plane, surely there's nothing to say it would actually take off with full capacity?

For those people making the comments about animals going in the hold and how humans can't go there, might want to reflect on the US Military plane designed to carry only just over a hundred people, carried over 800 (the original figure was 640 but they later said this didn't include children) because it was able to carry that amount of weight when it wasn't also loaded up with cargo.

Given that animals can survive in the hold safely, I would suggest, that if we are into the desparate straits that very much appear to be the case here, that it would be perfectly possible to fill up the hold with humans. Indeed, I suspect there are humans in Afghanistan right now who would happily sit in an animal cage for the duration of the flight if it meant they could get out.

The idea that 'people can't go in the hold but animals can' is so fucking laughable in terms of the disconnect between Western Reality and the Reality of the Situation in Afghanistan, that I don't know where to begin.

If your life is in that much danger, standard health and safety becomes something that isn't a thought.

I'm not quite sure there was much thought given to it at Dunkirk. Or by the Boat People escaping Vietnam.

Honestly people prattling about being hard of thinking, really need to fucking engage their braincells.

Australia rescued just 26 people on a plane with a far larger capacity. So clearly, space on places is not ‘optimised’ and it’s therefore very simplistic to say this guy’s plane takes a slot from another aircraft carrying more people.

@MakemeaCake you mean like the plane that took pens wife out of Kabul earlier in the week? With from memory only 7 passengers on board? She posted a photo of rows and rows of empty seats. That took up a slot too but doesn’t seem to be half as controversial as a plane load of passengers and rescue animals. I haven’t missed the point at all. I’m just hoping that he does get out with his team and his animals because as I said before every life has value.

And if people really did value animals over human beings then animals shelters would be redundant. The idea that animals are valued more doesn't bear scrutiny when you look at the way human beings actually treat them.

@RedToothBrush

For those people making the comments about animals going in the hold and how humans can't go there, might want to reflect on the US Military plane designed to carry only just over a hundred people, carried over 800 (the original figure was 640 but they later said this didn't include children) because it was able to carry that amount of weight when it wasn't also loaded up with cargo.

Given that animals can survive in the hold safely, I would suggest, that if we are into the desparate straits that very much appear to be the case here, that it would be perfectly possible to fill up the hold with humans. Indeed, I suspect there are humans in Afghanistan right now who would happily sit in an animal cage for the duration of the flight if it meant they could get out.

The idea that 'people can't go in the hold but animals can' is so fucking laughable in terms of the disconnect between Western Reality and the Reality of the Situation in Afghanistan, that I don't know where to begin.

If your life is in that much danger, standard health and safety becomes something that isn't a thought.

I'm not quite sure there was much thought given to it at Dunkirk. Or by the Boat People escaping Vietnam.

Honestly people prattling about being hard of thinking, really need to fucking engage their braincells.

Once animal are in the hold, and the plane has taken off, no one can go to check on them. Any problems at all, they are doomed.

TBH, there have been times I have been on a flight and wished the screaming kids were in the hold.

'Ricky Gervais thinks they should be allowed to leave'

Ricky Gervais is a privileged prat who doesn't know what he is talking about. Of course they should be 'allowed to leave' but again resources are scarce, staff, people etc all pushed to their limits processing desperate people. Not one bit of extra time, paperwork or people power should be used on transporting cats and dogs. They will have an animal cruelty problem long after saviour Pen has gone. Forget the animals just get him and his staff out.

Good on him

[quote Namegamegamenname]@TheGenealogist very mean of you to call a man who served his country (most likely yours too) in such unsafe environment selfish.

It’s really easy for you to sit behind your computer and write your strong, unkind opinions. While this man had risked his life to bring out his staff - mostly young women and helpless animals who were used for the benefit of the western countries.
If you are so worried for the welfare of the other people desperate to leave, you can start your own initiative, rather than siting here rolling eyes. @Jarstastic you were also v unkind to roll eyes to his wife who must’ve gone through her own trauma and fear of being stuck in Afganistán. You both seem to think it’s ok for the women working at the shelter to live under taliban regime. Why don’t you both make a visit there to know how desperate everyone is there? This guy arranged for a plane to evacuate them and he was right to protest. Who are you to decide which life values more to sit in the safety of your home and roll eyes? Have you ever done any recurring or are you a keyboard warrior who likes to start mean threads? Why don’t start a thread about Dominic Raab not wanting to cut short his holidays in times of emergency?[/quote]
I'm sorry you think I was unkind. I was really taken back to see her comments a few days ago and commented to DH. I accept she may have been shellshocked and/or her comments weren't portrayed correctly.

This was a couple of days after there was a headline article in the Telegraph online showing a big near-empty plane which gave the impression it was a British military plane (it was taken down and/or amended a few hours later). The story wasn't on my radar previously.

That's a big jump you're making to make those assumptions on my opinions. I think no such thing.

The man is doing whatever it takes to rescue the people and the animals he has worked with and come to bond with. He's doing whatever he can in a country that is going to hell in a hand basket. That's all most of us could do in such a situation. I wish him the best of luck getting very member of staff and every animal out.

@RedToothBrush

Given that animals can survive in the hold safely, I would suggest, that if we are into the desparate straits that very much appear to be the case here, that it would be perfectly possible to fill up the hold with humans.

It would be against pretty much every IATA/ICAO/etc rule under the sun and depending on circumstances it might be a bit chilly but traveling in the hold of most modern passenger aircraft would be survivable…