To ask why the NHS is cancelling operations?!

[CFEC]

I'm due to have a (much needed and waited for) op in a few weeks time, I've just rung my consultant's secretary as I haven't had a pre-op appointment letter through yet and queried it, as I wanted to make sure the operation is definitely going ahead as if nothing else, I'll be off work for 2 weeks and my boss would ideally like confirmation.

She said 'Oh, well they're cancelling A LOT of inpatient appointments, but as you'll be a day patient no, I think yours will go ahead.'

I swear I will lose my sh&^ and cry if it gets cancelled again, this will be the third time!!!

Why is the NHS cancelling operations left, right and centre?! Surely it can't be due to Covid still? If it is, what is going to happen to us all, so many people are going to die surely as a result of not getting treatment? A lot more than with Covid! Most people are double vaccinated now, this virus isn't going away, why are operations for in patients being cancelled?

[quote Blossomtoes]Blair/Brown trebled the NHS funding but such a whopping increase in budget didn't make that much of a difference

It made a huge difference. I don’t know why people keep endlessly repeating this myth.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/general-election-2010/waiting-times[/quote]
Yes.
Repeat this until people understand 💯.

Money won't solve the crisis by itself

It would most certainly go a long way towards solving it, if used to fund more staff and expanded services.

There is a bizarre instance that the only options for healthcare are the borderline communist NHS and the extremes of the US model.
Lots of countries have mandatory insurance contributions, which pay for treatment at a range of public and privately owned care providers.
Some countries even offer crazy options like being able to opt for different levels of care for different levels of contribution.
Unless you allow patients to act like customers and vote with their feet the NHS as a monopoly have little or no incentive to improve services offered.

Well some of this is true and some of it is just nonsense (borderline Communist, crazy?).
Of course there are a range of countries offering a range of options. I was just pointing out that if the US option was being considered, it’s ineffective and expensive.

@borntobequiet

Money won't solve the crisis by itself

It would most certainly go a long way towards solving it, if used to fund more staff and expanded services.

But you can't magic staff out of thin air even if pay goes up, even agency staff are thin on the ground; you could offer someone hundreds for a night shift and still not necessarily find anyone. Expanding services relies on staff numbers rising. Many departments have been promised more money, but there's little point if there's no one to staff them. Essentially it all boils down to attracting and more importantly retaining staff, and not just nurses- there are lots of people who keep hospitals and other settings ticking over that are leaving in droves and taking their hard work and expeience with them. They need to be centered in order to resolve any of this, and as has been said, this isn't as simple as higher pay.

[quote CBUK2K2]@user1497207191 The ridiculous system of targets lead to nonsense like people being on waiting lists to go on a waiting list.[/quote]
It didn’t.

prioritizing patients based on anything other than clinical need is unethical

Obviously. That’s why the 63 day cancer target was introduced.

I will start by saying I’m sorry you’ve had a wait for your operation and even sorrier that it’s been cancelled a few times already.

But, yes, the issue is due to COVID still. Well, that and the pre-existing issues of lack of bed capacity and staff shortages. The back log built up during covid has not gone away- it’s huge and is going to take years to clear properly without significant investment in both physical and staff resources. It is very naive to think that because things are more normal in some ways, the NHS is back on an even keel.

I can promise you it is not because we are all sitting with our feet up having a little rest and cancelling patients because nobody can be bothered. If you are cancelled, it will most likely be because there is a bed capacity issue or someone has come in as an emergency/urgent case and they need the theatre space. If the latter, we would only cancel if there was no other choice. The other issue can be staffing- we have a shortage of doctors in some surgical specialties, as well as physicians in some areas. We also have nursing shortages, which can limit bed capacity too.

Another problem the NHS is facing is that we are still working with department of health mandated guidelines regarding reduced numbers of beds on some wards. So, if we have some emergency admissions then those beds earmarked for elective/planned procedures will be used by those- as we have nowhere else. There are times when the hospital literally is at capacity- it’s a juggling act some days with patients “boarded” on various wards scattered round the hospital.

@CFEC

But what happens to all these people that need these operations? Do they just have to sit around in pain, probably with little quality of life for another 3-4 years? Not meant in a goady way, I'm genuinely curious, there just doesn't seem to be a contingency plan.

I'm half tempted to just say F it and deplete our savings a fair bit and go private as I really can't wait much longer if this gets cancelled again for a 3rd time but am loathe to do that if it will go ahead but it's the not knowing. I can't plan, just getting fed up of it now.

I appreciate the NHS wasn't in a great state pre-covid, but it just seems madness that a virus that is here to stay, that 87% of the adult population is inoculated against, is still going to grind the NHS to a halt this winter AGAIN.

My DS is hcp and had his nose and skull fractured by a client 15 months ago. He was sent for urgent surgery but it was cancelled as the staff had Covid or were isolating.

He's had three further dates cancelled and now been told there are no plans to reschedule until further notice. We've decided to go private still a long wait, he should be having surgery on Friday but it's now postponed by the hospital until October.

My DN broke her ankle and sadly it isn't healing and needs surgery urgently, 20 weeks later and two ops cancelled she still waiting with no date private or NHS.

These are fit young people in key worker occupations. Sadly the system is broken.

@Changemusthappen This is how i was treated when i took the personal responsibility you are waxing lyrical about....

I lost 10 stone 19 years ago.. I got gallstones and it got so bad i couldnt eat SOLID food. i went through months and months of excrutiating pain and A + E admission. In and out of A + E for TEN MONTHS. then doctors coming to my home to give me morphine injections whenever i had an attack . Finally a doctor prescribed me morphine pills which melted under the tongue that i took every time i had an attack. First attack was 3 July 2002 Scan was on 19 Dec 2002 after months of A + E admissions . Early Feb 2003 i got a letter telling me id have to wait for ANOTHER YEAR. I cried my eyes out and actually considered suicide. It was only after a private consultation with a surgeon and then another admission to hospital and an NHS appointment with the same surgeon that my op was promised within 6 weeks It was done 5 weeks later on 28 April 2003.id lost 8 stone by the time i had my op. The surgeon and two doctors told me it was caused by losing weight too fast. (slimming world) The pain was excrutiating and the first attack appeared after id lost nearly 4 stone. Back then i had no idea fast weight loss could cause gallstones I was losing a stone a month and whenever i did try to slow it down i either stayed the same or gained.

I actually did seriously consider suicide especially after i got the letter telling me id have to wait ANOTHER YEAR. I thought it was beyond cruel especially when id lost the weight by myself with willpower.

i believe due to mixing tramadol with as many over the counter drugs as i could in the early months to stop the pain i have been left with long term issues and its also left a bitter taste in the mouth TBH. Im grateful for the NHS but i was in so much pain i was thinking of overdosing (which i was bloody close to anyway)

All governments have been complicit.

Hospitals and wings build under PFI which Gordon Brown leapt on because it was off the books - with civil servants incapable of dealing with the private financiers and getting a good deal. Several major hospitals were left with empty wards because they couldn't afford the staff and needed charities to raise the money to pay back the funders. (Same happened with schools).

No government getting to grips with social/elderly care, eg families unable to cope or pay for seriously ill relatives and leaving them to bed block because there was no reliable help to keep people in their homes and safe. Boris Johnson and various other PMs have promised to deal with this for forty years but haven't.

Overwhelming bureaucracy in hospitals and surgeries and dental practises minimising the amount of time that could be spent on patients.

Increasing longevity and increasing obesity overloading the system.

Upgrading nurses so all had to have university degrees - and then removing their bursaries, then reinstating them at a fifth of what they had before.

Treating all medical staff so badly many have resigned, gone to work in private practice or just left the industry altogether.

Relying on overseas or EU medical staff and then going for Brexit.

Not realizing you can't promise 10000 more nurses (6 years training) or doctors (9-11 years for a GP, more for a specialist) and expect them to appear on scene immediately.

Covid has just thrown this all into stark relief making the winter flu problems into a year long problem.

So,if we all want the pressure on NHS to be eased going forward it would make sense for us ALL to continue to wear masks and VOLUNTARILY reduce/restrict our socialising... but again too many people are too selfish and too careless to bother

You are selfish if you see family at Christmas they said.
Its to protect the NHS they said.

ITS ONLY FOR ONE CHRISTMAS THEY SAID!!!!!

The NHS should not be a barrier to normal life. I have been astounded by the bullying that has been constant from my fellow ppl on the left . Stunned.

Time to post this again.
The right talk about the deserving/non deserving poor and the left talk about the deserving/ non deserving NHS patient. Quite a disturbing parallel!

@borntobequiet Borderline communist seems a fairly reasonable description of a state owned monopoly staffed almost entirely with people of a left leaning political bias.

@Blossomtoes My personal experience would tend to disagree with you. Having twice been put on a list to be allowed on to the waiting list. There was smattering of pointless consultations (This is bases on the nursing staff undertaking them telling me they were needless) but obviously ticked a box somewhere.

@Refreshpage I think you've misjudged just how much self harm the NHS has done to public opinion over the pandemic.

Extra funding for the NHS is a long way down my list of needs/wants.

[quote CBUK2K2]@borntobequiet Borderline communist seems a fairly reasonable description of a state owned monopoly staffed almost entirely with people of a left leaning political bias.[/quote]
‘Everything I don’t like is communist!’ says an idiot.

@DismantledKing You've instantly lost any debate when you choose to insult someone rather than counter an argument.

It's a massively bureaucratic, state owned monopoly, staffed almost entirely by people with strong left wing political ideologies. How would you describe it?

The overwhelming bureaucracy exists to protect trusts. Mindless tick boxing to provide evidence that a certain task has been done in case of a complaint. Said tick boxing can be so bl**dy time consuming it's a struggle to get the thing done .

@Blossomtoes

I've been saying for years that it should be privatised/ or have an income threshold to be able to access it

Alternatively we could just vote for a government that would fund it properly. But, no. People would far rather pay less tax than have decent services.

Nutshell.

Where would the threshold be - slightly higher than your income?

We pay a shitload of taxes where I am, and there are certainly issues in our healthcare service, too. But I will never wish for 'pay at the point of use' healthcare as the only option.

[quote CBUK2K2]@DismantledKing You've instantly lost any debate when you choose to insult someone rather than counter an argument.

It's a massively bureaucratic, state owned monopoly, staffed almost entirely by people with strong left wing political ideologies. How would you describe it?[/quote]
It’s free at the point of delivery healthcare that has saved millions of lives, mine included. Without it my son would have been left motherless when he was two.

I’m assuming there’s some evidence for the assertion about the political opinions of NHS staff? No, thought not, more speculation and anecdote. None of the most vocal critics of the NHS are keen on facts.

[quote CBUK2K2]@DismantledKing You've instantly lost any debate when you choose to insult someone rather than counter an argument.

It's a massively bureaucratic, state owned monopoly, staffed almost entirely by people with strong left wing political ideologies. How would you describe it?[/quote]
I’m not trying to debate with you; I think you’re an idiot and there’s no point. The rule about the ‘pigeon playing chess’ applies.

@NotPersephone

It’s free at the point of delivery healthcare that has saved millions of lives, mine included. Without it my son would have been left motherless when he was two

Nope, it’s modern healthcare. Nothing to do with the NHS. You’d have been grand in France, Germany or Switzerland too.

Many, many people would not be able to afford healthcare without a socialised service, and that goes for most of Europe and other countries with "free" healthcare, too. It's a lottery- if you are lucky enough to be born in a country with a socialised health service, you are blessed. If not, of course you are not going to go to the doctors until you are too ill to do anything else. It may be too late by then.