Page 2 | To think this is a threat of my manager?

melj1213 · 23/08/2021 21:31

And that way, when she say's 'can you pop in for a quick chat?' (only for you to find that there's somebody else there and it's actually a formal disciplinary for sickness absence) you can say 'I'll need to contact my rep and sort out their availability'.

Depends on the rep's goodwill as to whether they would accompany the OP as usually they won't represent anyone whose issue preceded their union membership, some have minimum membership terms before a rep will get involved.
Because the OP is new to the workplace they may be willing to overlook the "minimum term" due to circumstance but there's no guarantee

Samafe · 23/08/2021 22:25

No, I don't see any threat.
E.g. my Manager told me once he had to check if I am allowed to take a sabbatical since I work part time, because I am his first employee working part time and he had literally no clue. He then granted it after the check. It was not a threat or a hint.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 24/08/2021 08:47

@melj1213

And that way, when she say's 'can you pop in for a quick chat?' (only for you to find that there's somebody else there and it's actually a formal disciplinary for sickness absence) you can say 'I'll need to contact my rep and sort out their availability'.

Depends on the rep's goodwill as to whether they would accompany the OP as usually they won't represent anyone whose issue preceded their union membership, some have minimum membership terms before a rep will get involved.
Because the OP is new to the workplace they may be willing to overlook the "minimum term" due to circumstance but there's no guarantee

Yes, absolutely - but just saying the words 'my rep' tends to change the dynamic considerably from experience, into one less weighed in favour of management.

Sadiecow · 24/08/2021 11:14

No threat there, also if you don't need the two weeks surely you don't have to take them?

If your better sooner than that, go back?

Your doctor probably didn't want the hassle of two certificates, so guessed how long you'd need.

Original poster

bloatedandfedup · 24/08/2021 11:37

@Sadiecow I'm hoping to go back Monday if i can get everything under control.

OP posts:

Sadiecow · 24/08/2021 11:53

[quote bloatedandfedup]@Sadiecow I'm hoping to go back Monday if i can get everything under control.[/quote]
Well she can't complain at that!

Dublincailin · 24/08/2021 11:55

In my job, it is not allowed to go from sick leave straight into annual leave.

There has to be a break between them ie in work even just for a day to validate the annual leave.

safariboot · 24/08/2021 12:02

Yeah, I'd say that comes off as passive aggressive. If your manager was only concerned about pay arrangements they'd have said specifically.

With diagnosed IBS, disability discrimination law comes into it. It's not an absolute keep your job no matter what, but if they discipline you based on standard sickness policies (eg Bradford factor) they could be in hot water.

Original poster

bloatedandfedup · 24/08/2021 12:08

@Dublincailin yes your right I am having to backdate my sick note.

She asked me to call her today I've tried all morning and no answer what else can I do? I don't feel I should be chasing her when I feel rubbish and been signed of sick. So frustrating

OP posts:

godmum56 · 24/08/2021 12:21

IMO not a dig but I am a retired NHS manager so I would say that wouldn't I
I also have IBS and I would say that your sickness absence is at the far end of what my occy health department (not me) would have considered to be reasonable for your own health as well as employment issues. There will be a difference too if you have got a proper diagnosis vs "what the GP says it is"

The other thing with NHS employment where I worked is that any illness that had D and or V or both as symptoms was treated with extreme caution in case its not IBS but any kind of contagious thing. Our infection control had unbreakable rules about that.
Last thing is that I am confused.....is this extra few days off at the end of your GP's fit note? ie you have already had 2 weeks or more off and need more time? or is it during your fit note 2 weeks? Where i worked, if it had got to fit note stage which was as follows, 7 days self cert then doctors fit note, you would need to either get another GP fit note, or get a cert from our own occy health department who would at this stage also arrange for specialist assessment if it wasn't already in train.

godmum56 · 24/08/2021 12:24

[quote bloatedandfedup]@Dublincailin yes your right I am having to backdate my sick note.

She asked me to call her today I've tried all morning and no answer what else can I do? I don't feel I should be chasing her when I feel rubbish and been signed of sick. So frustrating[/quote]
email her

Hummingbird1950 · 24/08/2021 12:37

You're off sick so you have no obligation to be in contact with work at all.

Original poster

bloatedandfedup · 24/08/2021 12:39

She's not even replied to my last email feel like I'm pestering.

@godmum56 I had a few days off sick at the start then she asked me if I wanted to take my planned annual leave or self certify for 7 days. I said I will take my planned annual leave thinking I would be ok to go back after.I wasn't if anything I got worse, then she made me aware I can't take annual leave in between sick. So I am having to back date my sick note, if that all makes sense?

Also I have IBS-C so opposite to having diarrhoea.

OP posts:

vivainsomnia · 24/08/2021 12:49

Did you declare your condition when you filled in your occupational health questionnaire? How long have you been in the job? Is it your first in the NHS? Be prepared for this to be raised when you come back and them wanting to know more about your condition and how it affects your ability to undertake your job.

MoreHairyThanScary · 24/08/2021 12:56

If you are nhs then you will b allowed a certain amount of time ( ours is 14 days or 3 episodes sick leave ) In 1 year, if you exceed this you get moved onto a stage 1 sickness warning in which you are allowed a certain amount within 6 months if you exceed this you go to stage 2 of a formal warning and if things don't improve then possible dismissal.

I think the fact you are in the probationary period is a worry....

It's also in our sick policy that we have to phone in personally to our line manager not an email or text or friend ( excepting incapacitation) ...this is probably why the manager wants you to phone.

Geamhradh · 24/08/2021 12:56

@bloatedandfedup

I've had some time of due to IBS and vomiting the GP has given me a sick note today for two weeks.

I have emailed my manager to let her know that I have had a few bad days and don't feel well enough to return.

She emailed me back to say she will have to check when my start date is to see where I am in the sickness policy.

I'm still in my probationary period so I am
Worried about loosing my job but I can't work when I'm this sick.

AIBU to think this is a dig? We are badly understaffed so I get it, but I'm already worrying about other things let alone work.

The problem probably arose right there with what you said:

You were given a sick note today for 2 weeks, but then told her that you didn't feel well enough to return. That almost sounds like you got the sick note on the off-chance you didn't feel well.

You've had a lot of time off in a short space of time and are still on probation. In fairness, you can see their point. They took someone on to fill a post. The work isn't being done when you're off sick.

You should probably grasp the bull by the horns and make an appointment with Occupational Therapy and/or HR to see if there's a way to help everyone.

I do sympathize, honest, (I have gallstones and that causes alternating D & C) but you're going to have to find a way if you want to be kept on.

Geamhradh · 24/08/2021 12:58

@Hummingbird1950

You're off sick so you have no obligation to be in contact with work at all.

It really doesn't work like that. Anywhere.

SeasonFinale · 24/08/2021 13:11

The reality is if you are still in your probationary period they can let you go without giving a reason.

Crazycrazylady · 24/08/2021 13:26

Op,
I think i would be concerned about so much sick leave in your probationary period, In my company, it would be unlikely you would be kept on, How long do you have to go until your 6 months are up?

FinallyHere · 24/08/2021 13:27

to check when my start date is to see where I am in the sickness policy.

Seems fair enough that she be able to tell you how the policy is relevant to you.

my planned annual leave but I was sick the whole time.

Have you read the policy? I encourage you to check it again and make sure you understand how it is relevant to your situation.

Anywhere I have ever worked, not NHS, you have to:

not be on site if you have been signed off with a gp note

cancel annual leave and be registered sick instead.

It means that people don't have to use leave for sickness, also that the company know how often they are incapacitated by illness.

godmum56 · 24/08/2021 13:34

I know this is a nit pick but its Occupational HEALTH, not Occupational THERAPY....OP may not know and will get odd looks if she tries to make an Occupational Therapy Appointment.
So have you been off sick for 2 weeks?
Have you got a "proper" diagnosis of IBS or is it what the GP says?
have you got a prescribed treatment plan?
Yes staff can be required to contact the manager every day to confirm that they are not fit to return to work but where I worked this was only used where there was any kind of doubt...they can also be required to attend for a meeting with an appropriate health professional but again not usually needed.
I think your manager is doing things by the book. This can often result in being complained about (personal painful experience) .....its also my experience that managers prefer to have a union rep in meetings. it makes things much easier in terms of everybody knowing and understanding what is said and doing things by the book. Bothe reps and managers know where the lines are and while reps are there to fight the staff members corner, they will also know where the line has been crossed for whatever reason....makes things much faster and easier.

Original poster

bloatedandfedup · 24/08/2021 13:52

I've had 8 days off in total if I go back Monday that would be 11 days off,my probationary ends next month.

Two days before I was due in I did contact her and let her know I was still sick and whether I would need a sick a note.

@godmum56 GP has just said he believes it is IBS-C and has put me on a ibs medication and anti sickness.

I really don't want to loose my job, do I just suck it up and go back? It will be a massive struggle and not sure I will manage. I don't feel ready yet at all but if it means I have a better chance of being kept on I will have to suck it up.

OP posts:

CatJumperTwat · 24/08/2021 13:56

Do you get paid sick leave? If so, it could simply be that she’s checking what level of sick pay you are entitled to.

That was my first thought. In my company you don't get paid sick leave (beyond statutory) until you've been there six months.

This worrying is going to do you no good. Would it put your mind at rest to call HR and ask where you stand?

godmum56 · 24/08/2021 13:58

@FinallyHere

to check when my start date is to see where I am in the sickness policy.

Seems fair enough that she be able to tell you how the policy is relevant to you.

my planned annual leave but I was sick the whole time.

Have you read the policy? I encourage you to check it again and make sure you understand how it is relevant to your situation.

Anywhere I have ever worked, not NHS, you have to:

not be on site if you have been signed off with a gp note

cancel annual leave and be registered sick instead.

It means that people don't have to use leave for sickness, also that the company know how often they are incapacitated by illness.

I am retired now but the not being on leave and sick thing used to have some flexibility......eg if you are on hols and get a stomach bug, you can go into sick leave from leave. In the NHS while on sick leave you may attend your place of work, if not infectious. Indeed you may need to do so in order to attend appointments related to your absence or to do clinical handover. This is the case no matter who has certified your absence.

Geamhradh · 24/08/2021 14:35

@godmum56

I know this is a nit pick but its Occupational HEALTH, not Occupational THERAPY....OP may not know and will get odd looks if she tries to make an Occupational Therapy Appointment. So have you been off sick for 2 weeks? Have you got a "proper" diagnosis of IBS or is it what the GP says? have you got a prescribed treatment plan? Yes staff can be required to contact the manager every day to confirm that they are not fit to return to work but where I worked this was only used where there was any kind of doubt...they can also be required to attend for a meeting with an appropriate health professional but again not usually needed. I think your manager is doing things by the book. This can often result in being complained about (personal painful experience) .....its also my experience that managers prefer to have a union rep in meetings. it makes things much easier in terms of everybody knowing and understanding what is said and doing things by the book. Bothe reps and managers know where the lines are and while reps are there to fight the staff members corner, they will also know where the line has been crossed for whatever reason....makes things much faster and easier.

In my workplace it's called OT as it's the department which makes the necessary post-diagnosis adjustments for employees.