To be unsure whether that there are any benefits to 'failure?'

[incidentalaccident]

Hello everybody. I have been reading a lot about failure lately, podcasts etc. The general theme seems to be that failure can be positive as a way to learn and as a route to success. I have always been unsure about that because it feels like a fairly middle-class sort of approach, where failure is OK because there is a financial safety net. Anyway, full disclosure, I am middle-class and I think I am about to fail and although this is not a threat to income as such, I don't think I have a psychological safety net. In brief, I am about to finish a book, which will be published, and I think it's possibly quite shit. If/when it 'fails,' the failure could be vaguely public (to colleagues and peers) and I am absolutely terrified. I know this is so self-obsessed and self-indulgent - there are so many people struggling with incomparably bigger problems than this one. But I am trying to think of upsides of this and I am struggling. AIBU and is anyone prepared to discuss this with me and tell me about their failures?! Or just to get over myself.

You've published a book, that's a win, I think!
If it's shit, so what? I bet most of your colleagues will only read the reviews anyway and will forget about it soon enough whether it's good or bad.
Congratulations on having written it, and gone out if your comfort zone - I bet it's better than you think

I can give you some perspective perhaps from a sporting context? DS is still 11, competing in athletics as an U13, due to his 26th Aug birthday. We’ve just spent an entire weekend (at great expense) watching him come last in 100m/200m/800m in South East of England Championships. He ran against boys who have facial/underarm hair and whose voices have broken, he looked liked a toddler lined up against men. He didn’t embarrass himself by any stretch, a number of people commented on how strong he looked, how good his technique is, but he’d benefit from his growth spurt. He walked off the track after every race, smiling and saying ‘wow mum, that was a fast race’. He gets the standard, he understands why he’s behind right now, but grateful for the opportunity to compete at such a high level. His coach tells me, if he can hold his own at the moment, continue to train and compete and not be demotivated when he’s a little boy, competing against men, when he hits U17 and things even out, he will do well.

One of his team mates in a similar position, came last in his race and burst into tears. DS didn’t do that (x3). He came home and asked me to sign him up to more races.

And apologies to @Polkadots2021 who phrased this so much more eloquently than I did. In sport, your failures become your motivation. Until this weekend, DS did not know that U13’s could run the 100m in 12.40. Now he does, because he raced him. So that’s his new goal, and he takes it on with determination, he looks at ‘marginal gains’, does he need to train more/differently, alter his diet, sleep more etc. It’s achievable in his age group, so how does he make it work for him. He didn’t have a successful meet in terms of his own performance, but he absolutely did in terms of next steps.

Failure is like anything, it totally depends on your outlook. I have had failure in my profession and as a consequence I have moved away from it as despite my best efforts it taught me that it wasn't for me. It was teaching btw ad so I now at 35 still lingering in the profession drifting for 1 gig to the next but I class myself as a failure but I still have to pay the bills.
So when I say I have moved away from it I mean I no longer teach exam classes, stuck more in supply gigs. I also lived in shared housing and all my dating life has failed. I guess my life is so surrounded by failure that I no longer notice it.

''I'm trying to "reframe" it as it being a really tough time for everyone in the arts, and at least I'm still getting auditions, but it's hard. I'm scared if nothing comes up soon I'll get sacked by my agent, and that would be a humiliating (and somewhat public) failure. ''

I think you are going to hard on yourself though, as is the op. Writing a book and acting are 2 routes in which success is very limited and can often be down to contacts and nepotism. It will not be 'humiliating' by any means not making it in acting as it is possibly 1 of the hardest industries to do well in.

''It's better to just accept that bad things happen, and failures can have no benefits. That's life.''

failure isn't necessarily bad though, it can teach us things-maybe 1 for instance in how to work more effectively.

''The worst case scenario is that it gets a few OK reviews but doesn't sell very well... but so what? ''

Probably the most realistic scenario and I don't mean that in a goady way but I mean it's very difficult for unknowns to publish a book and for it to be a hit. But lots of books are written and published and only a minority will sell well, not necessarily failure but just the market. It's the same way there are models but only the few will make it to the Cindy Crawford league, it doesn't make the rest of them failures.

To put it bluntly, if you don’t fail, you don’t learn or you aren’t trying.

So what if it (whatever ‘it’ is, in your case a book) isn’t a success? What does that even mean to you? How have you defined success and failure for your you book? Let me guess, some nebulous ‘umm lots of sales and umm maybe good reviews?’ is a success and ‘umm low sales’ is a failure?

How about the the book may have low sales and terrible reviews, but you’ve learned a lot on the way? Is that then a success?

Someone mentioned it really early in the responses, but google the ‘learning mindset’. It’s interesting and very true.

P.s. “success” is overrated, now tell a good failure story at a party and everyone can relate.

Thanks again everybody, and @edwinbear your son sounds great. I have never felt like that, I am sure it's partly personality and partly upbringing (not blaming my parents, just how it was). But that means I need to make more efforts to have that sort of mindset if nothing else to model it to my own kids.

A few people have mentioned sales and funnily enough I am not sure how worried I am about that - I really don't have high expectations! It's more the spectre of hideous reviews from other academics saying we know all this already and why did I bother. That kind of thing.

OP, I found your thread in the small hours, scrolling in bed because I had a big professional failure yesterday. It stings. It’s really not pleasant. Feels like jet lag.

Financially there is some safety net etc, but my ego is hurting and I feel kind of ashamed, exposed and like I’ve let people down who supported me in going for this. I also feel angry with myself for the things I had put on hold to take a shot at this. My go-to conclusion is that I didn’t do a good enough job and it’s all down to me. Whereas in reality it’s never fully like that (although definitely lots I can learn and improve).

I’ve set myself just one tiny goal for this week, to fail “professionally”. That is, in the way everyone above says and not to link this event to my entire identity (which I am very good at doing, suspect we had similar parents). And then to “fail again, fail better” when I’m ready.

Oddly, there was something comforting in finally being told in black and white yesterday that I hadn’t been successful at this thing. I had a sense I probably hadn’t got it, but I also suffer from being my own worst critic, so I was second guessing my assessment of it all the whole time. It was exhausting living with the two possibilities in my head. Now it somehow feels like the dust has settled, ok not in a way I’d have liked, but I have something to work with, a defined outcome. So maybe you’re in the most difficult bit now. Hold your nerve and get a bottle of fizz for the day you actually know the outcome. My DH had this ready regardless of what the news was and it was nice.

At the risk of writing an essay here, in my field of work we have tended to operate under well-established norms that are now being pulled apart by “the new normal” (Covid, Brexit, climate change etc). I’m not an academic, but have been drawing on the work of one from decades ago to help find a new way to do things in my niche. This academic was someone whose work had been overlooked in his time, but he had done a fantastic job chronicling how things were in my area of expertise back then, sometimes in painful, mundane detail, for which he was criticised at the time. For various technical reasons, this detail is very relevant again now. It’s invaluable in terms of what I’m doing. So maybe failure is also a matter of perspective and there is a very long view one can take even in the worst case.

Finally, I sit on a board of a “do good” body and we were once sent proof copies of a book that sounds similar to yours. It was about social policy but was written for the general public. I actually have no idea how these ended up being sent but there were copies at a board meeting from the publisher (I assumed) and everyone took one. I’ve never seen that book in the shops or in reviews but I did read it and it does still inform my thinking doing that role.

So, what I’m trying to say in a very clumsy way, is that you’re not wrong that if a book matters to one person it still very much matters. Besides, making political issues more accessible is always a very worthy thing to do, and especially now. Stuff the grumpy academics!

Thank you for the thread, some excellent advice on here.

PS - I would totally buy your book!

@MumblesAndMutters

Thanks so much for your lovely response and I am really sorry - it sounds like it's been a tough week, even despite your efforts to fail 'professionally.' Ego is a big problem isn't it - I think I have a big ego and a lot of insecurity and that is a baaaaddd combination. One thing that has helped me (don't laugh - my family do!) is to read a bit of Buddhism which is pretty good on how to deal with ego. And other stuff actually.

I think it is helpful to remember that we all fail and it is true that if we try at anything, it will happen. But we have to try not to look for external validation.

One of my big things (thinking about my book) is comparison. I am finalising the references now which involves looking through the work of lots of other academics and thinking that my book can never even compare! But as they say ... compare, despair.

Good luck with whatever comes next and thanks again for your lovely response (and to everybody who has replied so far).

What is your definition of the book failing? I would be incredibly proud to have published a book m, that in itself is an enormous achievement regardless of what happens thereafter. Be proud of that! You have put on the time and energy to produce something that someone has agreed is worthy of publishing. It might not make you millions but that's not the only definition of success.

Thanks so much @sickmama I feel a bit embarrassed that this thread reads like I was asking for people to tell me I'm great when I really did mean it to be about how we frame failure. But thanks - and I am definitely NOT expecting the book to make me a single penny! It's always been about scrabbing for respect from my peers, but academics are a critical lot by their very nature I guess and that's pretty difficult to get.

Hello,
I have come to conclusion that to try is always better than to try than play small. Anyone can do that.

I really do hold quite firmly that not all opinions are equal. Anyone can criticize from the comfort of an imaginary 'perfect conditions with no personal or financial limitations'. Although of course it is always nicer to have people say your work is good.

You will also find with people who have experienced knowledge of something like writing a book, getting it published etc are more likely to give helpful advice than criticise as they understand the sacrifice and not simply the outcome.

I think there is something really brave in giving yourself permission to learn and hone a craft like writing rather than expecting a first go to be on bullseye. No one ever is an overnight success no matter how it looks from the outside.

Congratulations on this new chapter of your life! (Ahem!!)

I wish there was an edit button. My first sentence should say:

I think it is always better to try than play small.

@incidentalaccident

Thanks so much *@sickmama* I feel a bit embarrassed that this thread reads like I was asking for people to tell me I'm great when I really did mean it to be about how we frame failure. But thanks - and I am definitely NOT expecting the book to make me a single penny! It's always been about scrabbing for respect from my peers, but academics are a critical lot by their very nature I guess and that's pretty difficult to get.

I get the need for respect from your peers but if this is a book written in non academic prose it is intended I guess to offer an insight to your subject to the interested public not your colleagues? So whilst it would be great to get some positive feedback from them (would they even read it anyway?) it’s your target audience you want to impress surely?

DS2 has written a similar book which he intends to self publish on kindle knowing completely that he won’t make a penny. His hope is that he might gain a few positive reviews which might help him if and when he goes on to write more. I don’t believe there is any way to fail with this.

DS1 is terrible at failure and I put that down to personality plus only really knowing success until fairly late. It’s not a good trait.

Finally if you have ever sat next to someone at dinner who has bored you to tears with all their triumphs and those of their DC you’ll know that nothing is more tedious. Learning from failure and acceptance of it is a beautiful thing.

It's only a failure if you consider it to be a failure OP. Most people would consider being published in the first place.

Let's be honest here, lots of good books go unnoticed and are not a commercial success. Plenty of shit books go onto be a commercial success.

Thanks @MatildaTheCat and @Bathtimebillie

I really am feeling much more positive about the whole thing now, thanks so much again to everybody who has said nice and helpful things on this thread. I am actually really looking forward to moving on from the book to get on with other projects (potential failures ... or maybe not).