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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be unsure whether that there are any benefits to 'failure?'

68 replies

incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 13:35

Hello everybody. I have been reading a lot about failure lately, podcasts etc. The general theme seems to be that failure can be positive as a way to learn and as a route to success. I have always been unsure about that because it feels like a fairly middle-class sort of approach, where failure is OK because there is a financial safety net. Anyway, full disclosure, I am middle-class and I think I am about to fail and although this is not a threat to income as such, I don't think I have a psychological safety net. In brief, I am about to finish a book, which will be published, and I think it's possibly quite shit. If/when it 'fails,' the failure could be vaguely public (to colleagues and peers) and I am absolutely terrified. I know this is so self-obsessed and self-indulgent - there are so many people struggling with incomparably bigger problems than this one. But I am trying to think of upsides of this and I am struggling. AIBU and is anyone prepared to discuss this with me and tell me about their failures?! Or just to get over myself. Smile

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 23/08/2021 17:12

Tbh, to your friends and family utvwill probably be seen as fantastic because they love you and will be proud of you.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 23/08/2021 17:12

Failure isn't falling.
Failure is not getting up.
Read about James Dyson

And look up "impostor syndrome" too.

Polkadots2021 · 23/08/2021 17:31

@incidentalaccident

Hello everybody. I have been reading a lot about failure lately, podcasts etc. The general theme seems to be that failure can be positive as a way to learn and as a route to success. I have always been unsure about that because it feels like a fairly middle-class sort of approach, where failure is OK because there is a financial safety net. Anyway, full disclosure, I am middle-class and I think I am about to fail and although this is not a threat to income as such, I don't think I have a psychological safety net. In brief, I am about to finish a book, which will be published, and I think it's possibly quite shit. If/when it 'fails,' the failure could be vaguely public (to colleagues and peers) and I am absolutely terrified. I know this is so self-obsessed and self-indulgent - there are so many people struggling with incomparably bigger problems than this one. But I am trying to think of upsides of this and I am struggling. AIBU and is anyone prepared to discuss this with me and tell me about their failures?! Or just to get over myself. Smile
OP take the failure concept from the one and only arena that understands it - sport. I'm a sports coach and PT and this is part of our daily language.

My younger athletes throw all self identity into a sport I coach, they are measured in terms of training times, goals, targets etc weekly, in competitions, on scoreboards, in leagues, and they suck it up if they fail because they need to fail (or as we say, just don't make the time to qualify, or whatever) because that just shines a light on how they need to improve, and to outshine the competition, get on top and stay there. Every Han on earth fails regularly and in sport we know this take it as a fact of life and work with it strategically.

In many ways it's brutal but worth it but failure is necessary. It's the other side of the coin.

I feel like noone outside sport really understands exactly how to experience failure productively simply as a step along the way.

You need to get way more systematic about failure like we do, have the goal, pursue it in a dedicated way, make the mistakes, have tunnel vision, don't care about outside voices, tune them all out, lose the pride, feel humility, dedicate to your goal/craft and just keep on keeping on. It's a journey OP, own how far you've come, be proud of your work and your passion, don't let other people's views of you define you, and commit to the fact that it's a lifelong goal to improve and this book is one excellent step along the way but like us all you will always have a long way to go. And be proud. One day you could be one of the best there has ever been in wiring about what you write about, but only if you can take this all on the chin repeatedly - champions always do. Good luck, you're trying which is a hell of a lot more than most.

scarpa · 23/08/2021 18:48

I like the PP's idea of defining Not-Failure for yourself (and would add that you ask yourself why that particular goal is a success for you, and whether it's a reasonable goal or you are putting the moon on a stick for yourself).

I also think that being brave and determined enough to write an entire book with the aim of improving communication on a particular topic in a more accessible way is a really, really good achievement in itself. It's not something a lot of people would have the knowledge or motivation to do. Acknowledging your privilege-based safety nets is great, and a useful thing to do, but it doesn't take away from the fact you've achieved something.

incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 19:14

This is such helpful advice here - thanks so much everybody and commiserations to @GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal Wish I knew who you were so when you get your next part I can come and see you on stage.

OP posts:
incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 19:15

Also everybody has been really generous and kind on this thread, despite my self-indulgent rantings. I really appreciate that.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 23/08/2021 19:23

I've had some epic failures in my life. Looking back on them (and thank you, OP, for making me reflect) they are often strangely liberating.

Failing at things has taught me that all the time you can pay the bills, fill the fridge, and have a few good mates to have a laugh or a cry with, nothing else matters all that much.

And once you feel that, it's a great feeling. Grin

Kanaloa · 23/08/2021 19:28

To be honest you haven’t failed at all. You’ve had a book published, which is a massive success. If the book doesn’t do well, you’ve still had it published, which is more than you had last year, and you can use what you’ve learned from why it failed to make the next one better.

You should feel proud of yourself for such an achievement. Also, you might just feel it isn’t very good because you’re nervous about it being seen by others - it might be a massive success.

dreamingbohemian · 23/08/2021 19:58

Getting published is a success, full stop.

So what if academics think it's not academic enough -- it's a non-academic book! I mean I get it (as an academic who published a non-academic book) but try to ignore this line of thought.

And if non-academics don't enjoy it, well surely there are things you can learn for next time. And I hope there will be next time, it's so important for academics to engage with the real world and not just write incomprehensible doorstops for each other : )

BobMortimersPetOwl · 23/08/2021 20:11

Failure isn't limited to finances, so it most certainly isn't exclusive to the middle classes to be able to use it as a positive.

Looking at why we've failed and critiquing what we would do differently, learning what motivates us, what works and what doesn't, using failure as a driver for future successes etc is really important in order to develop ourselves.

D1sc02000 · 23/08/2021 20:11

Read up on growth and fixed mindsets. Having the opportunity to fail and make low stakes mistakes early on in our learning affects how we handle success and whether we assign it to our intrinsic ability or our efforts. If parents can foster a growth mindset it’s a great approach. As someone said Carol Dweck has written a lot in this area (and motivation, which is strongly linked).

incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 20:52

I am reading these comments again now I have time. @dreamingbohemian interesting that you have done this. I mean obviously I know I’m not the only academic to write for non-academic audiences. Having written the thing I have realised it hardly says anything original at all. But I also think I’ve lost sight of whether any of it matters as I’ve been staring at it for so bloody long!

OP posts:
GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 23/08/2021 21:11

@incidentalaccident

This is such helpful advice here - thanks so much everybody and commiserations to *@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal* Wish I knew who you were so when you get your next part I can come and see you on stage.

Thank you. If I get a decent part any time soon, I'll get you a comp. Grin

JADS · 23/08/2021 21:26

Is it a history book Op? Because if it is I would read it.

You are about to become a published author, someone asked you to write a book. That's pretty damn great.

I actually think failure is a good thing. Learning to deal with failure is really important.

ReuT3 · 23/08/2021 21:37

What's your book called OP? What's it about? Am I allowed to ask?

ReuT3 · 23/08/2021 21:39

@UnGoogled

You're about to be a published writer! That's a massive achievement. I published a children's poetry book and recently made about £2 in sales 😆

But I've got a book for sale on amazon so I'm dead chuffed.

What's your poetry book called?
ReuT3 · 23/08/2021 21:48

PS I failed to manage my degree properly and now I need funding for a course that stopped running the year I applied.
They were changing the course to include the technology more in the subject. I've now to decide if I'm saving up for nothing or if there's something I can do about the technology side that I haven't prepared for. But I'm still saving up. And doing all the other things I wanted to do with my life. And it drives everyone mad. Including me. Especially my partner as it seems like a tight squeeze of ambitions. I may suffer a bit but I'm ok so far but I am wondering how I'm going to get a drivers license or how big a scale my first project will be.

incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 21:55

Hi all I better not say what it’s called @ReuT3. But broadly it’s about inequalities - why they arise, why they persist. But in a specific context. And not history as such but there is a bit of history in there to help explain.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal I’d come even if was a rubbish part. I sometimes think there are small similarities with my job and yours as there is a lot of rejection and it can feel very personal.

OP posts:
groundcontroltomontydon · 23/08/2021 21:55

Ian McEwan's Amsterdam is toe-curlingly awful - and they gave him the Booker Prize for it! So I guess sometimes failure pays off.

WildBluebell · 23/08/2021 22:13

I think people often try too hard to find the "benefits" of failure, or to reframe it as something positive.
It's better to just accept that bad things happen, and failures can have no benefits. That's life.

incidentalaccident · 23/08/2021 22:29

@groundcontroltomontydon haha, yes think I remember that being a bit crap. I think I am unlikely to be awarded a prize unless it’s the booby prize. Smile

@WildBluebell I think there is definitely scope for that approach!

OP posts:
LolaButt · 23/08/2021 23:16

If you have roaring success at the first go at everything, the success would lose value.

Like Christmas Day every day.

Define what failure in this context is for you OP? Critical opinion isn’t a failure in my view. It’s an opportunity to learn.

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 23:21

I read a book called 'The failure of success' which made me think a lot.

With your book, I would try not to think about how others receive it, but how you felt writing it. Did you enjoy the process? Was it harder or easier than you thought? What did you learn? What is your next book about? How long until you publish your next book?

Focus on process not output, you can change your process, you can do nothing about the reception to the book.

UnGoogled · 23/08/2021 23:23

Ah, I'd lose my lovely anonymity if I revealed the name of my boom, unfortunately. Wink

UnGoogled · 23/08/2021 23:23

Book, even!!