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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Flexible working request denied

76 replies

flexandbend · 22/08/2021 19:11

DH works in finance, back end no customer face to face only over emails and phone calls. Recently he put in a flexible working request to have one day a week off and condense his hours. This is something 3 women in the office already do to cover childcare arrangements. The reason for this request was a change in personal childcare circumstances and DH struggling with his anxiety. DH's flexible working has been rejected as 'our customers don't work 4 days per week so neither can we'. He responded to this outright rejection saying that there were already 3 people working this way (he had asked for a different day so no overlapping). The senior manager responded saying he 'didn't realise this' and the best they can offer is half a day.

DH is furious made even more so by the fact that there was apparently (according to his line manager) a very long email trail between him, his senior manager and the regional manager. The case DH put forward is that most customer request calls/respond to emails later in the day however on his current work pattern this is not possible by working later he would be able to respond to the instantly. For the day that he was off he would ensure that anything urgent has been tended too but even then they have a 3 working day response deadline to all emails so there would be no delays.

DH works hard at his job he is consistently in the top 2 rankings for the centre and often is asked to pick up cases that other team members have not touched for over a week which has resulted in complaints. He is highly regarded and is according to the senior manager a valuable member of the team who gets things done.

Now DH never formally filled in the flexible working request as he was told not too nor was a meeting held to discuss his request. To me this isn't right and they should be holding a meeting to discuss the request and then a response should be given in writing and HR should be aware and present.

DH is currently debating handing in his notice as he feels like his hard work is for nothing and is annoyed that they have said that the customers don't work 4 days a week when it has been fine for his female colleagues.

Are we being unreasonable to submit a formal request and ask for a meeting. I am sure it will get us no where but this was also our last hope before I would have to give up my job and I'm worried about DH anxiety levels especially due to the pandemic.

Any help or advice is appreciated

OP posts:

5128gap · 22/08/2021 20:58

@Dfhugdhvdnjrs

I would not mention the anxiety issues in the request as again this will complicate (although there may be HR professionals on here who know more) - the focus should be on how he can still deliver/perform the role on reduced hours. That will be the primary focus of his employer.

I definitely would, and would get it recorded as a health condition. This opens the opportunity to strengthen the request by presenting it as a reasonable adjustment.

Sitchervice · 22/08/2021 21:02

If your husband is picking up work no one else touched in weeks they are probably thinking oh no if he drops some time we'll fall behind.

UniversalAunt · 22/08/2021 21:13

An employee has the right to formally request flexible working, but not to get flexible working. Hence the importance of going through HR monitored formal process to make the request.

Long before COVID, the impact of formal requests was proving problematic in our business as formal requests were mounting up & as a department that was heavily weighted towards long serving staff, a considerable proportion were presented as reasonable adjustments for disability & long term health conditions. We foresaw that that quality of service would be heavily impacted if everyone had their flexible working requested implemented, & so a rigorous review was overseen by HR to minimise indirect discrimination & optimise flexible working across the board.

The matter was too operationally risky to be left to individual line manager discretion & a broader strategic HR/OD & operational overview was required.

COVID has opened up a whole new world.

Peacrock · 22/08/2021 21:15

Definitely he should put a formal request in, they will have a formal process to follow then and have to give a robust reason for refusal. It is considered as is as the time of application though, so whilst it may seem unfair that some are part time already, it doesn't count as a precedent that they need to follow. To be honest although stuff like home life should be mentioned (not sure how it would help with anxiety though), what it would be refused on as he has seen is how it would affect the business. If he can put forward in the request how he would mitigate any disruption and if there's any way to actually improve it, ie can shorten response times if submitted on x day as I'll be in later or whatever. Also being flexible on days helps, Mondays and Fridays are usually the days people request leave if not the whole week, which is problematic if someone is always off, put forward that midweek would be fine and as the impact on the team would be less be harder for them to refuse.

Original poster

flexandbend · 22/08/2021 21:17

He is going to submit the formal request tomorrow along with a covering letter explaining that he wishes to go through the formal process.

If it's still a no (which we are presuming it will be) then so be it but at least we will have a written response.

Our massive issue that has changed things for us is childcare so it's not just all anxiety focused.

We would be happy for him just to drop a day rather than condense his hours and did present this as an option.

OP posts:

Livelovebehappy · 22/08/2021 21:22

Just probably coincidence that three others have a four day week, and they happen to be female. We have some staff who do four condensed days, but other requests have been denied, simply because the company can’t accommodate further shortened weeks.

IdblowJonSnow · 22/08/2021 21:23

Formal request and stay positive in the meantime. If he acts unprofessionally, through his disappointment for example, that really won't help.

SimonJT · 22/08/2021 21:25

This happened to me (after a formal request), other part time workers were eventually split so there would still be six members staff in the department everyday of the week.

I quit and found a four day (well, three spread over four) role quite quickly.

Flyingantday · 22/08/2021 21:31

Good luck OP - this happened to a friend, our branch manager declined her flexible working request out of hand because it didn’t fit with her view of how the rota should work, the friend submitted official request to HR and it was approved as they looked at it objectively and without preconceived bias. The manager was grumpy but had to accept it….

But it is maybe worth him looking for another job in the background, i developed chronic anxiety for the first and only time in a job where I was trying to be the dashing dependable safe pair of hands, who stopped things slipping through the cracks and was handling/preventing complaints that shouldn’t have been my responsibility, but without any real control of the situation/workload and with never enough hours in the day to do it all. I would also be wary of him accepting a half day as he will still be there at 4pm working for free.

ChaneySays · 22/08/2021 22:48

Women with kids always seem to get priority. In my previous job they'd all waltz off an hour early to do the school run but I could see on the system that they never logged in either earlier or later to make up those extra five hours.

I would inevitably end up picking up the slack, but when the team bonus came after winning a bid they were always in line for their equal bonus.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 22/08/2021 23:04

@ChaneySays

I would inevitably end up picking up the slack, but when the team bonus came after winning a bid they were always in line for their equal bonus.

That sucks and is a bad management. (Like Christmas leave...)

Tomselleckhaskindeyes · 23/08/2021 07:31

could he ask for a 9 day fortnight?

vivainsomnia · 23/08/2021 08:24

This is the problem with flexible working and employees feeling entitled to get what they ask because they are legally entitled to ask. The first person asks. If the company says no, they can't provide the response that if they say yes to them, everyone might ask the same and that would become a problem, because each request needs to be considered on its own merit, and decision can't be made on what could maybe happen in the future.

However, the moment one gets what ultimately everyone else want, everyone follows, and when they are then told no because it has reached a point that it is becoming a problem for the company, they are not happy and cite that others have got it.

Companies can't win. Your OH can take it forward, but the company doesn't have to do what he wants. The others having been agreed doesn't have to have set precedence. They can just say that at the time others asks, it didn't have a negative impact on the business, but it would now. Your OH should have been the first or second to ask.

MaMelon · 23/08/2021 08:34

That’s absolutely fine - if the company can prove that there would be a negative impact on the business. The fact that the manager didn’t know that others were already working in this way is worrying - it sounds like they’re not on top of things and that flexible work requests haven’t been managed properly (and by that I mean fairly and consistently) up until now. There should be a full assessment of whether there will be a detrimental impact on the business - and conversely, whether this flexible working will improve productivity and service - rather than one manager making an arbitrary decision. That’s why formal procedures should always be followed.

vivainsomnia · 23/08/2021 08:58

The fact that the manager didn’t know that others were already working in this way is worrying - it sounds like they’re not on top of things and that flexible work requests haven’t been managed properly (and by that I mean fairly and consistently) up until now
It doesn't really. He might have gone straight to HR and they advised him to say no. He might not know the ins and outs, but HR do.

MaMelon · 23/08/2021 09:37

It does really. He didn't go to HR - it's all in the OP. No formal request has been made, and as such HR haven't have sight of it. For a manager to say he "didn't realise" others in his department had flexible working arrangements is pretty shoddy management - if there's a policy (and there is here) then requests are assessed properly and the decision documented, and the manager should have access to that. An outright rejection based on a reason which doesn't fit with existing flexible arrangements has to be questioned. It may be that HR agree with his decision - but they are the ones to make that decision once they've heard all the arguments. If it's anything like our place, a manager cannot simply say no without giving very sound business reasons.

Original poster

flexandbend · 23/08/2021 12:19

HR were not consulted we asked for clarification this morning before we went any further.

They have said that they rejected it so to not set a precedent for more staff to request (we have this in writing)

We will still follow the formal process however we are certain it will lead to the same outcome

OP posts:

thing47 · 23/08/2021 15:33

the company doesn't have to do what he wants.

This is true, but they do have to have a sound business reason for declining it. "That doesn't fit with our working practices" won't suffice as a reason, particularly given that others are already being allowed to work in this way. It doesn't set a legal precedent, that is correct, but it clearly established the precedent in that particular places of work, one which will make it impossible for a company to argue along the lines of 'we never allow that'.

NotPersephone · 23/08/2021 15:46

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

GameSetMatch · 23/08/2021 16:05

Make a formal request and don’t ask for a Friday, if you ask for a Tuesday or Thursday there will be more chance it’s accepted.

Morph2lcfc · 23/08/2021 16:12

@AmyFl

Maybe it's because he is so good at his job- you said he's often in the top 2- which means that they don't want to lose him for a whole day each week? They won't admit that this is the real reason of course.

Very short sighted if that’s the case as it’s more likely they’ll now lose him completely.

If I were him I’d work to rule from now on, no more going the extra mile or unpaid overtime to get things done. Don’t quit until he has another role though

pianolessons1 · 23/08/2021 16:39

Is he vaccinated? I would suggest you stop all the stripping/60 degree wash/quarantining shopping nonsense as it's only feeding his anxiety.

LittleGwyneth · 23/08/2021 16:46

Put in the formal application and also start looking for another job where flexible working is an automatic aspect of the role.

mobear · 23/08/2021 17:02

He should submit a formal request, and if it is denied and he wants to quit make a claim for sex discrimination.

Original poster

flexandbend · 23/08/2021 18:43

@pianolessons1

Is he vaccinated? I would suggest you stop all the stripping/60 degree wash/quarantining shopping nonsense as it's only feeding his anxiety.

Not fully yet. He is due his second in a couple of weeks time so hopefully it may help him feel more secure although our family member who caught covid recently is very poorly even with the two jabs!

OP posts:

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