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Original poster

Flexible working request denied

76 replies

flexandbend · 22/08/2021 19:11

DH works in finance, back end no customer face to face only over emails and phone calls. Recently he put in a flexible working request to have one day a week off and condense his hours. This is something 3 women in the office already do to cover childcare arrangements. The reason for this request was a change in personal childcare circumstances and DH struggling with his anxiety. DH's flexible working has been rejected as 'our customers don't work 4 days per week so neither can we'. He responded to this outright rejection saying that there were already 3 people working this way (he had asked for a different day so no overlapping). The senior manager responded saying he 'didn't realise this' and the best they can offer is half a day.

DH is furious made even more so by the fact that there was apparently (according to his line manager) a very long email trail between him, his senior manager and the regional manager. The case DH put forward is that most customer request calls/respond to emails later in the day however on his current work pattern this is not possible by working later he would be able to respond to the instantly. For the day that he was off he would ensure that anything urgent has been tended too but even then they have a 3 working day response deadline to all emails so there would be no delays.

DH works hard at his job he is consistently in the top 2 rankings for the centre and often is asked to pick up cases that other team members have not touched for over a week which has resulted in complaints. He is highly regarded and is according to the senior manager a valuable member of the team who gets things done.

Now DH never formally filled in the flexible working request as he was told not too nor was a meeting held to discuss his request. To me this isn't right and they should be holding a meeting to discuss the request and then a response should be given in writing and HR should be aware and present.

DH is currently debating handing in his notice as he feels like his hard work is for nothing and is annoyed that they have said that the customers don't work 4 days a week when it has been fine for his female colleagues.

Are we being unreasonable to submit a formal request and ask for a meeting. I am sure it will get us no where but this was also our last hope before I would have to give up my job and I'm worried about DH anxiety levels especially due to the pandemic.

Any help or advice is appreciated

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 22/08/2021 19:43

He should put in the flexible working request but they can decline on various grounds such as an impact on the quality of service or inability to redistribute the work.

The fact that 3 other people already have this arrangement is irrelevant as Flex working requests can be a bit of a first come first served UNLESS he can make a case that he has been treated less favourably because he is male but I wouldn't fancy his chances if they put a half decent rationale for the refusal together (though doesn't sound like they have done this to date).

The should have a policy, he should put it formally in writing noting it is a statutory request and they should respond in writing and if they refuse should set out their reasons for doing so which must be one of the prescribed reasons for doing so (be warned they are vague enough to be helpful to employers). You cannot bring a tribunal for refusing a flexible working request (but he could if he could show discrimination but I think this will be a difficult test). He could resign and claim constructive dismissal but I would recommend this even less as it will be very hard to show this constituted a fundamental breach.

I would say his best way forward is to apply formally and if that fails look for a more flexible employer.

SmokeyDevil · 22/08/2021 19:43

Put a formal request in and start looking for new jobs.

catgirl1976 · 22/08/2021 19:45

These are the legitimate grounds for refusal

extra costs that will damage the business
the work cannot be reorganised among other staff
people cannot be recruited to do the work
flexible working will affect quality and performance
the business will not be able to meet customer demand
there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
the business is planning changes to the workforce

newnortherner111 · 22/08/2021 19:52

Submit a formal request first I suggest, but assuming the response is the same, then reasonable to consider moving to another job.

The other possibility is to ask to work one day or more at home longer term.

Cactu · 22/08/2021 19:57

I know it’s hard to do this but you should stop pandering to his anxiety by washing clothes in Dettol and quarantining shopping. It’s just legitimising his warped thinking if you go along with it. I live with someone with anxiety and I just say NO a lot. Your relationship won’t survive if you basically become under the control of his anxiety.

IseeScottishhills · 22/08/2021 20:07

I applied for flexible working the organisation I work for advertises jobs and always mentions it has a flexible working policy. It was declined (I was considered by all to be very good at the job) I resigned on the spot and was then urged by the person who declined it to appeal! I didn't I got a new job doing the hours I wanted and have never been happier.
View it as an opportunity.

godmum56 · 22/08/2021 20:08

Has he got anything to prove he was told not to put in a formal request?

Bluntness100 · 22/08/2021 20:15

I have been working throughout however when I get in the house it is strip and shower thoroughly and clothes are washed on a 60° heat with dettol fabric cleanser. Shopping is left (with the exception of fridge stuff) for 48 hours before touching, same with post or anything coming into the house

Gosh you’re still doing all this? Even with the knowledge it’s not necessary? He is really very unwell. Is he actually able to go into an office and work at all a s behave normally?

MegsSmeg · 22/08/2021 20:18

The fact 3 people already work to this arrangement could count against him, not work in his favour. Maybe the department has already reached the limit on the number of part time staff who can reasonably carry out the role and there is a genuine need for others to be there 5 days a week. Maybe the part timers are all under review because they aren't fulfilling their job requirements well enough on these hours, you don't know. I agree this should all be done formally so that you can get a considered response. But one person shouldn't allowed to change their hours based purely on the fact others work the same way, it needs to be about business need and his formal request should outline how it would benefit the business not him.

harridan50 · 22/08/2021 20:19

I think the flexible working request in some ways is the least of his worries
How is he going to function actually going in to work even if this request was accommodated
He needs to address this asap

LannieDuck · 22/08/2021 20:22

@MegsSmeg

The fact 3 people already work to this arrangement could count against him, not work in his favour. Maybe the department has already reached the limit on the number of part time staff who can reasonably carry out the role and there is a genuine need for others to be there 5 days a week. Maybe the part timers are all under review because they aren't fulfilling their job requirements well enough on these hours, you don't know. I agree this should all be done formally so that you can get a considered response. But one person shouldn't allowed to change their hours based purely on the fact others work the same way, it needs to be about business need and his formal request should outline how it would benefit the business not him.
I doubt the rejection is because they've maxed out flexi workers, since the manager who rejected his request didn't realise any others in the role are on flexible working!
Blankspace4 · 22/08/2021 20:24

Presumably most meetings don’t take place outside of core hours though and therefore he would have an easier ride in some ways.

Also where I work, I and most of my colleagues regularly work extra hours in a working day (eg meetings at 8:30, doing emails til 7, don’t take a full lunch hour) and don’t get a day off. I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s the way it is.

I do think he should get some help for his anxiety though as that must be horrible for him (and you) to live with.

I hope he can find a solution.

cookingisoverrated · 22/08/2021 20:25

Submit a formal request.

Ask him to seek help for his anxiety; it sounds absolutely exhausting for both of you.

Dfhugdhvdnjrs · 22/08/2021 20:26

It hasn’t been considered properly because he hasn’t actually made a formal flexible working request. His mistake was to try to do it informally, and unfortunately this has complicated things unnecessarily. If he makes a formal request there is a procedure that must be followed. He needs to make it clear that he is now making a formal flexible working request. There are many reasons why such requests may be refused included that other staff are already on reduced hours.

Merryoldgoat · 22/08/2021 20:27

I don’t understand managers being so rigid, especially with back office roles like this.

My manager has very explicitly told me he’s not concerned about me tweaking my working pattern as my work is of a high standard, my work is done and deadlines met and I’m a available in times of emergency.

The flexibility goes both ways and it’s an adult professional relationship.

Managers who think they own their staff are douches.

My DH’s manager is the same and we are the same in turn with our teams.

Dfhugdhvdnjrs · 22/08/2021 20:28

I would not mention the anxiety issues in the request as again this will complicate (although there may be HR professionals on here who know more) - the focus should be on how he can still deliver/perform the role on reduced hours. That will be the primary focus of his employer.

Councilworker · 22/08/2021 20:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dongdingdong · 22/08/2021 20:34

DH's flexible working has been rejected as 'our customers don't work 4 days per week so neither can we'.

Sorry but I agree with the manager. There’s been a very noticeable decline in customer service since the pandemic and people not being able to go into the office ‘coz Covid. If the company requires your DH to be working X number of hours in the best interests of the company, then he needs to accept it or find another job.

Dongdingdong · 22/08/2021 20:36

Funny how people were perfectly able to work a 5-day week in the office before Covid, but now find it impossible Hmm

Original poster
flexandbend · 22/08/2021 20:37

@Blankspace4 they only have 1 meeting a week which is always on the same day and time.

Customers request calls if needed and a mutual time is arranged. The first question most of them (apparently) ask is can I call after 5pm as otherwise it's in their working hours. At the moment DH finishes at 4pm.

There is a WhatsApp from his line manager asking him just to send an email rather than the form.

We have slowly been starting to go out! We went out yesterday to the shops together and just got there for opening. We also managed to meet some friends in the park today so hopefully we will get there. I used to suffer with anxiety so fully understand what he is going through. I too am worried about his return to the office but at only one day a week to start with I'm hoping we can work it out

OP posts:
AgentJohnson · 22/08/2021 20:41

I have been working throughout however when I get in the house it is strip and shower thoroughly and clothes are washed on a 60° heat with dettol fabric cleanser. Shopping is left (with the exception of fridge stuff) for 48 hours before touching, same with post or anything coming into the house.
It is exhausting!

Err, this doesn’t sound good. How would condensed hours help his anxiety? It sounds like his anxiety is getting out of control and getting help needs to be more of a priority than it has been. I worry that if he quits, his anxiety will really take hold and it will be harder for him to start somewhere new.

Applesandpears23 · 22/08/2021 20:43

He could put in a subject access request under the data protection act. That would require all those emails to be disclosed to him. It’s obviously a pretty aggressive move. Mentioning you are aware of its existence may prompt the company to follow due process when considering your formal request.

Smartiesandhugs · 22/08/2021 20:46

I work in financial services as a line manager and there has recently been a review by HR of all working patterns. It’s been decided that there are too many staff on condensed hours and they are now refusing anyone who requests. If people want to work 4 days they need to reduce their hours accordingly. It could be something similar for your DH.

Upstairsdownstairs30 · 22/08/2021 20:48

I would check the flexible working policy.

I work in finance and if you are not requesting a contractual change, eg reducing hours, the policy is not to submit a formal working request and hr will not be involved unless it is submitted. Condensed hours is not a contractual change and therefore is at line managers discretion.

It may well not be discrimination, it may be that others working hours were agreed by previous managers and so are being honoured.

He can push back and continue to make his case although if I was his manager I would fail to see how this would help manage his anxiety.

If it is a large institution they may have a hr helpline he could speak to anonymously for advice.

ErinAoife · 22/08/2021 20:52

Same for me apply for flexi time but got refused despite other in my department had it in the past. Was told it will not be fair on others as i will be seeing as having more time off and my colleagues will have an increase workload. The said colleague are the one that got flexi time in the past and I never complaint having to cover from them but now it is my turn it seems one of them has objected to it