What are you really when you're 15 years old?

[DelphineMarineaux]

I've noticed that people seem to treat 15-16 year olds differently depending on the circumstances. Just from Mumsnet alone I have concluded that a 15-16 year old is a CHILD when it comes to paedophilia, but when it comes to sex with peers, getting pregnant, staying out until the early hours a 15-16 year old is suddenly "old enough" to make their own choices that parent's aren't supposed to meddle in. How can you both be a CHILD and be "old enough" to have sex, get pregnant and make decisions about whether or not to keep the pregnancy, stay out late on weekends etc.?

I'm just really confused. Seems like parents "mould" their children's maturity depending on what suits their own agenda. Surely, you can't claim a 15-16 year old is child when, on the other hand, you believe they are old enough to do adult things such as having sex and staying out late?

Just to be clear, I believe 15-16 year old ARE kids and should be treated as such. That's why I'm always shocked to read on here what parents allow their children. Like on one thread people told the OP that asking her 15 year old child to be back home at 21.00 on a Friday night is "too early". Why? Where can the 15 year old realistically go to warrants a longer curfew? It's not like they have access to bars, pubs and whatnot...

Thanks for reading.

Also for the 21:00 curfew. A party at a friends? There are places 15 year olds go later than 21:00

It's a difficult age. They're almost adults, especially by the time they hit 16. They can do a lot of adult things - they can work, they can travel independently, they can start to make decisions for themselves about certain things without parental consent. But they're still very young, very inexperienced and potentially very vulnerable.

They are also all different. Some will be incredibly mature and sensible. Others will be very immature and incapable of sensible decision making.

It's a tricky balancing act for parents to be able to give them enough freedom to explore their independence while also keeping them safe. What that looks like in practice will be different for different kids, and of course, some parents will err more on the side of too much freedom while others err on the side of too much control.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy to let my 16yo roam the streets after dark, but I'm happy for her to be out late if I know where she is and if I'm confident that she is safe. I wouldn't leave her on her own overnight at home just yet, because I don't think that would be very nice for her, but I was happy for her to go away for a couple of days with her friends because I trusted them so to be sensible.

Sometimes, I find it really hard to give dd the freedoms that she asks for because I can't help but worry about her. I usually try to ascertain whether my worry is rational or not. If I conclude that it isn't rational and that the risks are very limited, then I let her do what she wants. It doesn't stop me from worrying but I recognise that that's my problem. If I conclude that my concerns are valid and that the risks are too great, then I explain this to dd and she generally accepts it. She might challenge my view and we might debate it for a bit. Occasionally I might change my mind. It's a process of negotiation and consideration. You can't insulate your child from risk completely, as they would never leave the house, so it's an ongoing process of balancing freedom and independence with safety and protection.

There are no easy answers, it's a challenging age. As a parent, I think you have to accept that this phase will inevitably come with a degree of anxiety. You just have to suck that up and get through it.

I would have thought it's fairly obvious that there's a difference between a 15 year old being mature enough to have sex with another 15 year old, and a 15 year old being groomed sexually by an adult man.

Re the curfew, why not debate that on the thread itself? It's probably already being discussed there (I haven't seen the thread) but there are lots of thing teenagers do after 9pm. Parties, cinema, bowling, I suppose all the stuff adults do but without the alcohol (most of the time we hope!).

I don't think a 15 year old is an adult or a child. They're in between and we need to make allowances for their brains not being fully formed yet whilst giving them increased amounts of freedom as practice for adult life.

@Eviethyme

The thing is when talking about paedophilia people arnt talking about a 16 year old having sex with a 15 Yr old. It's adults having sex with kids so in my eyes it's wrong for anyone over 17/18 to have sex with anyone under 16 regardless of consent age.

Say 2 x15 year olds were having sex u wouldn't be massively bothered apart from wanting them to be safe but if a 15 Yr old and a 20 year old had sex then that's different because one is an adult and one is a child til atleast 16 but really I think anyone 20 or over should stick to people 18 and over.

Please can you use the correct version of paedophilia, which is an adult wanting to have a sexual relationship with, or being sexually attracted to a pre-pubescent? Having sex with someone who hasn't reached the age of consent, whatever that age is in your jurisdiction, isn't actually paedophilia. The specific offence will be different depending on many factors, i.e. whether the young person is under 13 or not or whether the perpetrator is in a position of trust BUT it may well not be paedophilia unless a pre-pubescent is the victim. I understand that you might consider me to be pedantic, but I feel we need to use the correct terms.

I think what MN fail to appreciate too is that there can be a massive gap in maturity with 15/16yo. I worked years ago with girls of that age who were pregnant or had babies under 2 and been taken away from their families. All the girls had experience some level of trauma in their lives.

Some were incredibly mature, as you would expect a 20+ to be. They coped with looking after a baby amazingly well (and I realised even more after I had my children in my late 20s and struggle a lot more than these girls did), made rational decision, focused on their future and just needed a bit of support or direction to get there.

Others were typical immature girls, unable to look after themselves let alone a child. They acted like 10yo at being told what they needed to do, having tantrums, being defiant, sneaking out to go out, and needed constant supervision to ensure they kept their child safe.

That's why it's more often than not pointless to comment not knowing the child in question.

@LoislovesStewie - Exactly! 😘

Just left my 16 in two weeks time year old son overnight for the first time as we had to nip to London for something and staying overnight made sense.
I had no worries doing so but it did feel like a big deal! I wouldn't have done it 6 months ago so there is a bit of a difference I guess depending on just 15 or nearly 16 (or nearly 17 for that matter!)
Can't comment on the sex stuff yet...

16 is the age of consent for both men and women when it comes to sex. Mutual, consensual sex with a partner of the same age - very little point fighting that battle, better to guide with advice on great foolproof contraception, and establishing house rules that don’t necessarily encourage it (door open when boy over etc) and being sure you’re ready.

Sex with a much older partner is much more likely to be coerced, and therefore not consensual, and thus paedophilia comes into play. Whether it’s legally a crime to have sex with a 16-year-old, if you’re a much older adult, it’s certainly morally very dubious. A 15 year old in that situation is definitely all shades of wrong. Even if ‘consent’ is given, the power imbalance makes it almost impossible to guarantee that’s a situation they might not regret.

As to staying out, it’s less about whether 9pm is too early, more about whether your parenting is setting up an atmosphere of hard lines teens of 15 are going to rebel against, or whether you’re creating an atmosphere of respect where negotiation and listening to them is important and valued.

I dont think its important that paedophilia is colloquially used as a more general term meaning people that seek sex with kids and teens under the age of consent. Those specifically attracted to teens are hebephiles officially i think, but the majority of people that abuse and exploit kids are neither and are opportunists, but we all know what they mean when we call them paedos. We keep the stigma high here for good reason

It's a difficult age. They are neither a child nor an adult - they are an adolescent. They need to navigate the difficult path between childhood and adulthood, meaning that yes they may start to experiment with boyfriends/girlfriends etc, but they still have that youthful vulnerability that means that may still need protecting in other ways. A 15yo girl for example might not understand that it's inappropriate for a 30yo man to ask her for photos - she may think she holds all the cards and he really, really likes her, when in fact the experience we have as adults would tell us otherwise.

I'm not sure why you can't understand the difference between situations.

@Lillith111

Also for the 21:00 curfew. A party at a friends? There are places 15 year olds go later than 21:00

Also, cinema, bowling, shopping centre, ice skating, roller blading disco, sports clubs, watching football…

There’s tons of stuff a 15 year old could be doing with friends that would mean getting in after 9pm.

A lot of the discrepancies on MN come from posters who actually have teens and posters who are imagining what they will do when there pre schooler is a teen.

@Ducksurprise

A lot of the discrepancies on MN come from posters who actually have teens and posters who are imagining what they will do when there pre schooler is a teen.

This in spades!!!

@Ducksurprise

A lot of the discrepancies on MN come from posters who actually have teens and posters who are imagining what they will do when there pre schooler is a teen.

Ohhh tricky! I was very very mature for my age but at 15 still recognised that people would see me as a child because of my age. However I was very responsible and mature 15/16 year old and looked much older so got away with more 😂

Late adolescence sometimes continues until 21. The exact ages society puts on certain legal activities "16", "18" are all fairly arbitrary. Thats why the age of consent differs widely even across European countries.

"Because there's not a huge difference between being 15 and 16- Nor 14 and 15."

Young people (which is what I call them) can vary hugely. But in the individual there's a growth in emotional intelligence and a growing maturity in decision making, in those years. If a parent is parenting properly then they will be giving more independence to encourage that more. Which is why 9pm is a bit early for a 15 year old. Young people shouldn't just find themselves free to do whatever they want at 18, without an easing in.
But I agreed that 10 was ok to leave a child to walk home and be in for an hour, on a recent thread. Mine did it. I did think carefully because I had a typical 70's childhood, which was too lax, but think children are over fussed these days. They are far more capable than some parents recognise.

In regards to exploitation and grooming we can't ignore the still sexist societal messages. We don't make decisions in a vacuum and we are influenced by so many factors. Which is why we need black and white rulings.

I was very much a child. Very vulnerable and naive.

My sister, not so much.

Depends on the child.

If Teens are having sex with youngsters near their own age ,vastly different to being groomed by predatory older men surely? 16 is the age of consent, which to me means consenting to someone in their peer group .not an older guy looking for a youngster to control . Quite clear to me !

@GintyMcGinty

Gosh OP

If you can't tell the differences between the examples you've cited then you won't under any of the explanations that people give you.

Can you really not see a difference between staying out late at the weekend and older men having sex with underage girls?

Perfectly put.

There's a big difference between 2 consenting 16 year olds taking a carefully considered decision to pursue a sexual relationship, and a much older adult exploiting a teenager. It's about the natural imbalance of power between an older adult and a teen that doesnt usually exist between two teens. Of course a sensible parent will take into account the maturity of their own DC, there will be some 15/16 year olds who are very immature and prone to exploitation by their peers, but thats a judgement call for a parent.

I think you just know, don't you, when a relationship is inappropriate. If you have a mature, working 23 year old man who wants to date a quite immature, easily led 16 year old, you have to ask yourself what he's getting from that relationship except the potential to control & exploit.

By contrast, if you have a very mature 18 yo who is very independent, maybe working or studying & living away from home, confident and has had a boyfriend before, it may not be remotely concerning for a 24 year old to form a relationship with them.

I think it’s totally reasonable to differentiate between a situation where a 15 or 16 year old is having consensual sex with a peer of the same age and a situation where an adult is grooming them or engaged in sexual activity with them. That’s pretty obvious, right?

16 is the age of consent. A 15yo who is almost 16 having safe, consensual sex with another 15yo wouldn’t cause me, as a parent, to completely freak out. I’d want to know that they were protected from pregnancy and STIs and that both parties had enthusiastically consented, but I don’t think taking an authoritarian approach and telling them they are a child will do much to foster an open, honest and secure relationship between parent and child. And once their 16, you don’t have a lot of power to tell them they can’t do something legal and common.

Totally different situation to anything involving a paedophile. The reason that sex between adults and children is always wrong, regardless of any other factor, is that there is an inherent power imbalance which makes the child easily manipulated by the adult. There can be no true consent, therefore. This dynamic doesn’t exist when you’re looking at two 15 or 16yos.

That’s why people treat the situations differently - because they are completely different.

Spot on @Ducksurprise…