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Original poster

Was there a big difference in academic standard between O-Levels and CSEs?

112 replies

Warburtons2 · 21/08/2021 19:22

I did GCSEs just for the record but I’m interested to know people’s reflections on this and how were people selected to do the exams?

OP posts:
VexedofVirginiaWater · 21/08/2021 20:20

Did my O Levels in 1971 - girls grammar school. You could request to do a CSE as well a O Level if you were not confident about passing - but you had to pay the entry fee yourself. I just requested to do Maths - I did get a one, but I also got a 5 in the O level (1-6 were passes). My friend did a couple of CSEs - it was like an insurance policy at our school.

Seashor · 21/08/2021 20:24

PaperMonster, you’re the only other person I’ve come across with an O A level!!

MrsTulipTattsyrup · 21/08/2021 20:28

@Seashor

PaperMonster, you’re the only other person I’ve come across with an O A level!!
Make it two - I have one in French for Business! I took it in my lower sixth year.
Geamhradh · 21/08/2021 20:33

I went to a very "progressive" school (1977 intake) whose head decided he was only going to do CSEs to make it more democratic and within everyone's reach. (Nottinghamshire mining town) There was a bit of a protest from parents (including my Mum) and by the time I got to 16 O'Levels were offered as well. English literature Confused was the only subject where there was only a CSE. As others have said, if the teachers weren't sure, you were entered for both. So I am highly qualified in domestic science having both an O'level and a CSE grade 1.
Both English lit and DS were continuous assessment only. They were ridiculously easy.

YukoandHiro · 21/08/2021 20:34

Yes, it's a bigger step between GCSEs and a levels than between A level and first year of uni, IMO.

But I did my a levels a very long time ago, before AS levels were introduced

Iknowtheanswer · 21/08/2021 20:35

I failed my O/A Level maths. Top table of top set sat maths O Level in November of 5th Form, and then the O/A Level the following June. I got a B in O Level and a D in the June exam.

YukoandHiro · 21/08/2021 20:35

I totally misread your question.

I am so tired

Lindy2 · 21/08/2021 20:38

@Seashor

PaperMonster, you’re the only other person I’ve come across with an O A level!!
I've got one of those as well in Computer Studies. I think it was the first time a computer exam of any kind was offered. I remember that it was infact our music teacher who was clearly told she was now also to be the Computer Studies teacher. She was completely rubbish. I read the Letts Revise Computer Studies revision book myself so I could learn something.
borntobequiet · 21/08/2021 20:47

I did O levels in 1969. No one I knew did the CSE.
Here’s a Maths paper from 1967
www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/1967j-mathematics-olevel-questionpaper.pdf

borntobequiet · 21/08/2021 20:49

Sorry. More than one.

LizziesTwin · 21/08/2021 20:54

I have an A O level too (waves @Seashor & @PaperMonster). I did 3 O levels early & 7 + the A O in year 11.

BareVanilla · 21/08/2021 21:00

Isn’t it the same now? If your bright you sit the gcse where you can achieve grade A to C, if you’re second sets then the paper you sit can get you only a top grade of C down to a fail.

lanthanum · 21/08/2021 21:01

[quote PaperMonster]@MrsTulipTattsyrup would those with both an O Level and a CSE grade have been the 16+ ?[/quote]
Yes, they would. I did 16+ for English language in the penultimate year before GCSEs. I thought we got either an O-level or a CSE, but when the certificates arrived, it turned out we got both. Mine was 100% coursework.

(When I have to prove I have maths and English, since I did maths a year early, I can produce my maths and the English CSE and leave my main certificate safe at home!)

squix · 21/08/2021 21:08

I have an O/A level in French for Business Studies too - but I always thought it was an AO (Advanced O Level). I was last year of O Levels (‘87) and remember getting O Level and CSE grades for maths from the same paper (A and 1)

tanguero · 21/08/2021 21:14

YES, there was a big difference. I got a grade 9 (lowest possible) at O level Physics - no way could I ever have passed. In CSE physics, I wrote waffle (about rolling a cricket pitch, if I remember) and got the 'O level equivalent' mark. That changed my life ! I needed an 'O level science' to get into Exeter University, and the CSE 'O level equivalent' was it.
Eventually became a University lecturer myself.....all because of that scrapped CSE physics pass.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 21/08/2021 21:21

There was no coursework on my Art O level. Just one drawing and one painting.

christinarossetti19 · 21/08/2021 21:24

tanguero a friend of mine was in the first cohort of kids taking GCSEs. She had a track record for skiving and did no revision whatsoever. She said that she literally had no idea of what she was meant to have covered in most subjects, but there was a big political push to make GCSEs a 'success'.

She got 5 CSE grade 1s which, many years later, enabled her to do 'A' levels then train in her chosen profession.

She also said that she just wrote anything that came into her head on the exam papers.

We always used to say that you passed a CSE if you wrote your name and got a Grade 1 if you spelt it correctly, so maybe there was some truth in that!

marmitecake · 21/08/2021 21:35

I took O levels and CSEs in 1983. There was an option to take what was a 'joint' exam where you got two grades if you were borderline and I think this must be what PPs are referring to. I did this for English and I got grade 1 CSE, grade C 'O' level and French, grade 4 CSE, grade U Blush 'O' level!

HeronLanyon · 21/08/2021 21:38

Yes I think there was. The comprehensive o was I. Was streamed. Too streams did o levels lower stream did CSEs. Not sure how much movement there was between streams ie could a lower stream child do an o level. I wasn’t aware. Awful as it meant kids were allocated and that determined what they did. The difference in applying for a levels or jobs between o level and cse seemed huge.

MrsMop1964 · 21/08/2021 21:49

In 1981 we had the X stream which did O levels and the Y stream which did CSEs. If you did an O level a year early for whatever reason you could cram for a CSE in another subject in your 'spare 'year. In music we actually sat both as they had slightly differing topics on the curriculum (and I think the teacher thought 'belt and braces'. I also remember doing a solo for the exam, also JMB exam board. ( school in northwest england).

RaininSummer · 21/08/2021 22:02

I was in the so called academic stream at my hideous secondary modern school. I did all O levels apart from geography where, as I didn't really want to do it, I was put into the cse class. It was so tedious with everything not only being dictated but also repeated about 4 times. Myself and friend in same position got grade ones and the teacher seemed to hate us for it weirdly.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/08/2021 22:27

At my very academic direct grant school, I don't believe it was possible to do CSEs at all. We were all entered for 8 or 9 O levels, and as some girls struggled to get more than 2 or 3 passes, they were really short-changed by this policy.

Some girls did Additional Maths AO in Lower VI if they were doing Science A levels but weren't doing a Maths A level.

A girl who joined us for sixth form had previously been at a local comprehensive school. The head there had tried to remove the option to do O levels at all, on the grounds that a CSE grade 1 was just as good as an O level pass. She said there was a big pushback from parents who thought he was wrong.

Took my O levels in 1977. JMB. No coursework at all, no modules, no open book exams, all unseen exams at the end of what would now be year 11. I didn't do Art but from what I remember the girls who did spent all day in the Art room painting, a bit before the main run of exams. No science practicals. Music must have had something other than just written exams, but I didn't do that either, so don't know. Domestic Science definitely involved a practical exam. French and other Modern Languages involved not just an oral, with an external examiner, not one of our own teachers, but also a dictation exam and an aural exam (tape recording played, we had to answer questions on it).

All so long ago!

TawnyPippit · 21/08/2021 22:28

Ah yes, we used to call it double entry, where you did both o level and CSE - my Dsis did that in a couple of subjects. I assume they must have had the same syllabus.

I would slightly disagree with a PP who said that CSEs were only worth it if you got a Grade 1; I think the saving grace with CSEs was that a grade 2 was actually something, whereas the equivalent was a D at o level which in my day was a fail (D and E grades later moved to being called a “lower level of attainment”). My dsis got a couple of CSE grade 2s, whereas my dbro was at a school which only did o levels and he got a D in O level maths about 4 times running and effectively ended up with nothing to show for it. I think my parents would have been delighted with a grade 2 CSE Maths and drawing a line under it!

SamanthaJayne4 · 21/08/2021 22:29

At my secondary modern I did o levels and GCE's in 1969. In some subjects o levels were not an option (not enough time to teach the syllabus) . Their idea was that if you failed the o level you might pass the CSE. I did Human Biology. Physiology and Hygiene (classed as one subject) which was rumoured to be an S level.

echt · 21/08/2021 22:30

I taught O Level, CSE and GCSE.

The equivalence of Grade 1 for CSE = C at O level made me laugh and feel angry. You had to be so good to get Grade 1 at CSE - every Grade 1 CSE student I taught was significantly better than C candidates at O. Hands down.

Don't know how they were selected as I wasn't part of that process; my early days in teaching.