to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

SoupDragon you are confusing the responsibilities of the organisers with the responsibilities of the individuals.

No I'm not.

My experience is that genuine XR people don’t litter and that the organisers are also very responsible.

Other people's experiences differ. If the organisers were being responsible they would organise a clear up afterwards. Ultimately they are responsible if their name is being used.

I think most people know change is needed. I think most people know that as individuals our role is limited (but still worth taking!)

However, the methods and attitudes displayed from the vocal majority from ER doesn’t do anything to help their cause. Causing damage, littering, pushing people to take longer journeys to get to work are all against what they are supposedly for so just makes them look hypocritical.

Who are they protesting to and what do they expect them to do?

In specifics not platitudes.

That is what I never get about any protest.

@VladmirsPoutine

I'm sometimes in awe of the XR lot because if a Black & /or minority ethnic person tried some of that shit they'd be dragged off the top of the train and sentenced to jail for 50 years before the end of the working day.

Yes

They are neither the suffragettes nor the equivalent of civil rights movement. The are privileged virtue signallers. Yes, that word again. It fits so well for idiots like these. They have a sense of self importance that is rivalled by no one. They think they are better and more right than anyone else. The irony is that what they are doing is pointless, absolutely pointless. UK makes up less than 1% of global carbon emissions. I hope people start to get more and more fed up of this leftie student politics and condemn for being anarchists.
Also, the people protesting always appear to have terrible personal hygiene. If the pandemic has taught us anything, it’s the importance of personal hygiene. It’s really hard to take a lecture from anyone who looks like they haven’t washed in while.

About time they got a bloody job.

It's a Saturday demonstration, @AngryWhompingWillow. What makes you think they haven't got jobs?

ReggaetonLente, agree that government level change is what's required but XR protests rarely impact at that level. They impact working folk trying to earn a crust and it pisses people off. Their protests seem to miss their targets by a mile.

@Darker

So what are you doing, Simon?

I don’t eat any meat or dairy. I don’t buy synthetic fibres. I generally buy second hand, furniture included. I don’t drive everywhere, I almost exclusively walk/cycle, I have a cargo bike for bigger trips I don’t buy or use single use plastics I eat seasonally and buy locally grown produce, I don’t buy produce grown in large artifically heated greenhouses I buy my beer from a local company who grow and brew in the UK, they also have a bottle return scheme so you either get the bottle fee back or a cheaper refill I look carefully at the origins of non-food products and their ingredients, I don’t use/buy anything with palm oil for example, nor do I use products that contain tallow etc I use GEUK Our little holiday home is an old set of stables, virtually everything we’re using to do it up is secondhand, from the kitchen, to the toilet, to the ‘new’ tiles on the roof. It won’t have a heat pump as looking at the manufacture payback time the pump would need to last 47 years without any fixes etc, so again GEUK. I’ve managed to get a few people at work to make changes, this has led to some small changes at work, no more disposable cups/spoons, no more single sachets of things, a change in suppliers, company phones are now all fairphones, I think the fairphones started to come in at work in 2017, tech is no longer rented and replaced every 18 months, but company owned and repaired and appropriately maintained. This is now active in all of their offices worldwide, some are also making other positive changes, they’re only small steps, but it is a start. I very rarely fly, I always look at the best option, when I looked for the holiday we have booked flying actually worked out to be slightly better which did surprise me, I do still offset my journeys, which isn’t perfect of course. My voting reflects how I feel about the environment I choose not to buy from certain companies if I do not agree with their actions I choose my banking provider carefully, I also choose my investments very carefully as well, many products try very hard to hide their unsavoury side

I don’t verbally abuse people, litter, or cause criminal damage.

Oh and because I couldn't get to my appointment because they were blocking Oxford Circus I had to dump my car and power walk for 20 mins and ended up having a medical emergency with my blood sugar.

Most people subject to that sort of problem have something sugary with them at all times to avert emergencies.

@NantesElephant

Good for them. I support their actions, and the more disruptive the better if it wakes people up. The disruption will be nothing compared to what runaway climate change will bring.

Awww what a cute sentiment. Now, back to the real world. What exactly do you think they can change? UK carbon emissions which make up less than 1% of global emissions?

@LoislovesStewie

I suggest that everyone who supports extinction rebellion goes back to a 1950s lifestyle. No central heating, no technology, no replacing clothes until they are really worn out, in fact buy nothing until the item is kaput, walk or use a bike to get around, no car, no foreign holidays, no 'gap years' travelling to exotic places, don't buy a coffee on your way to work (because of the rubbish created), no food that isn't produced locally, (so bang goes the quinoa then). Have I made my point ! Thought not.

Ha. Everyone is a socialist and an environmentalist until they can’t get an iPhone.

There's no point being right if people aren't listening to you. Glueing yourself to their morning commute doesn't make people listen to you, it makes them think you're an idiot with no understanding of what it means to live in the real world and it actively harms your cause. Whether you're actually an idiot doesn't matter - you won't be proven right until it's too late.

You can on the other hand get a lot done by getting a job in a field which doesn't sound environmental and using that to make sure the work you do has a positive impact. Imagine, for example, the pressure you could put on suppliers if you were a very senior person in a big organisation's procurement department.

@Theluggage15

Bunch of middle class twats. Overwhelmingly white little cult it is too. The U.K. is responsible for 1% of global carbon emissions, why don’t they protest somewhere like China and see how that goes down.

The UK only has 1% because it doesn’t include the habits of people in the UK.

As a population we are buying a momumental amount of things from China, we are directly causing those emissions, the waste of natural resources etc. That should be included when a country is given a ‘rating’.

Some of us do our bit and have done so long before it became newsworthy, by recycling, mending stuff, avoiding plastic where possible, not driving unnecessary giant cars etc etc. As the UK is relatively low in the carbon emissions table, why don't these people protest against China, USA, India etc? Or at least protest outside Parliament if they don't actually know about those countries? Pointless to disrupt working people's lives like this.

It's all very well saying things will be worse if we don't take action on climate change now but ER inconvenience ordinary working people. It's difficult to care about what will happen in 10 years time if you know you won't be able to meet your rent or put food on the table by the end of the week if you can't get to your zero hours, minimum wage job.

For people who want to understand what XR's demands:

extinctionrebellion.uk/the-truth/demands/

Tell the truth
Government must tell the truth by declaring a climate and ecological emergency, working with other institutions to communicate the urgency for change.

Act Now
Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.

Go Beyond Politics
Government must create and be led by the decisions of a Citizens’ Assembly on climate and ecological justice.

This is an aside really. Not sure I understand all this middle class/working class dichotomy. My family are are working class, my DH's family are "middle class". We've all always gone to work to eat/maintain a door over our heads. It's not just working class people who work or get stopped from getting to their workplace as some previous posters might suggest.
I've never attended an ER protest and haven't really been inconvenienced by one either. I agree with @Eskarina1 though.
If I took direct action in this way and got in trouble with the police, there's a high chance I'd lose my job as a teacher. There are many people attending protests such as these who face this type of risk. There are a lot of generalisations and hate when the reality is lots of ER protesters are retired, lots work, lots are activist who live in relative poverty most of the time, some could be described as hypocritical and are wealthy, fly etc, a small majority are out for trouble, many are young people who are angry/scared/frustrated about their lack of future. They're all just people.
We ALL have an impact on the environment whatever we do but many seem obsessed with pointing the finger at what others are/are not doing and shouting "hypocrite". I loathe all this generalising and othering of people when folk disagree with them or don't like their actions. Calling people "middle-class twats" when they're willing to stand up and do something/anything doesn't reflect well on us either.

I agree the environment is fucked, I agree ER has been counter-productive in many ways but not sure there how people get heard tbh.

• roof over our heads!

go on, tell us how people are getting to work in places that are burning right now. Are they managing?

@LoislovesStewie

I suggest that everyone who supports extinction rebellion goes back to a 1950s lifestyle. No central heating, no technology, no replacing clothes until they are really worn out, in fact buy nothing until the item is kaput, walk or use a bike to get around, no car, no foreign holidays, no 'gap years' travelling to exotic places, don't buy a coffee on your way to work (because of the rubbish created), no food that isn't produced locally, (so bang goes the quinoa then). Have I made my point ! Thought not.

Actually yes, we should all be doing most of the above. Central heating can be powered by green energy though. We all need to buy, consume, and travel less.

The 10 biggest polluters in Europe are mostly coal power plants, and Ryanair.

On a national level, we need the govt to invest in sustainable energy generation and to lobby for that internationally. This is what XR protests for.

At an individual level, we need to take less holidays abroad.

@FOJN

It's all very well saying things will be worse if we don't take action on climate change now but ER inconvenience ordinary working people. It's difficult to care about what will happen in 10 years time if you know you won't be able to meet your rent or put food on the table by the end of the week if you can't get to your zero hours, minimum wage job.

Which is why global governments need to take action and not allow the narrative that its all the fault of him/her up the road who flies long haul twice a year for their holiday or buys a takeaway coffee or a cheap throwaway fashion item or gets their dinner from the chicken shop.

We are all culpable. All of us. But we can't change things on our own or wait until everyone is persuaded to live differently.

@raspberrymuffin

There's no point being right if people aren't listening to you. Glueing yourself to their morning commute doesn't make people listen to you, it makes them think you're an idiot with no understanding of what it means to live in the real world and it actively harms your cause. Whether you're actually an idiot doesn't matter - you won't be proven right until it's too late.

You can on the other hand get a lot done by getting a job in a field which doesn't sound environmental and using that to make sure the work you do has a positive impact. Imagine, for example, the pressure you could put on suppliers if you were a very senior person in a big organisation's procurement department.

I have done exactly what you suggest. The carbon savings I have instigated in my job take around 20 cars per year off the road and this has been the case now for five years. But society is doing nowhere near enough.

XR are effective. You might not like some of their methods but since their campaign started, more than 230 councils have declared a climate emergency, ours has done a big review of all of its practices and is looking at impactful changes such as to make changes to public procurement to favor bids that help the environment more. Their actions are making things happen on the ground and getting those of us in positions of influence thinking and talking about what should happen.

ugtest.pmadata.org/sugihbareng/download/5MNfbWMTDjg.xhtml

Environmental protesters love meat more than environment.
This is what happens when those individuals are asked to put their money where their mouth is.
"Tell the environment I'm sorry."
If they actually cared about the environment they'd be making individual changes, such as travelling by by public transport, eating less meat. Instead they glue themselves to trains and eat KFC.

@Hiphopopotamus

They could choose to be more practical, highlight greenwashing, yes that persil does have some plant based stain removers, yes that ecover smells quite nice, but they’re not environmentally friendly. They could assist consumers in making better (and realistic choices

Honestly this just shows you have absolutely no idea of the scale of the crisis and what actually needs to be done. This isn’t Sesame Street in the 90s anymore - we’re way beyond telling people to recycle and buy bamboo toothbrushes. 70% of carbon emissions are made by just 100 companies. The only way to change anything at this point is to put pressure on governments for real serious economic and structural change. Nothing else will do. And I don’t think asking them nicely will help.

Extinction Rebellion are actually on the whole a very interesting group who have done a lot of research into successful movements of the past (suffragettes, civil rights etc) and have found that disruptive civil disobedience is the most effective way to bring about change. Yes it’s annoying but it’s supposed to be - would you prefer them to send round a petition instead? If change doesn’t happen we’re all absolutely screwed, and there will be no jobs, no normal day to day life for people to disrupt anymore.

The replies to this thread are incredibly depressing with so many of you who clearly still do not get it, and think this is all going to be solved if a few of us switch from bleach to ecover

I agree with this. I support the movement.

I really don't think that anyone needs to show themselves to be perfect before they are allowed to protest. Littering and private jets aren't great optics, obvs, but at least they're trying.

Also, these events always draw people who are just bored. It's easy to point out the people who are just there for a party, and use them as ammunition against the people who are there to support the cause.

They also get hijacked by other causes. I remember going on the anti-Iraq-war March, and it was massively hijacked by the pro-Palestinians. It felt quite surreal.