to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

@Hypnoshiding Many scientists are involved in XR. Climate scientists have been publishing evidence about the climate crisis in top journals. Their recommendations over the decades have become more urgent and pretty much unanimous, yet policy makers and politicians have paid little more than lip service to them as well.

Various other groups have protested about climate change for decades using non-disruptive means and have been ignored by governments. It is proven not to work and we don’t have time now.

[quote NantesElephant]@Hypnoshiding Many scientists are involved in XR. Climate scientists have been publishing evidence about the climate crisis in top journals. Their recommendations over the decades have become more urgent and pretty much unanimous, yet policy makers and politicians have paid little more than lip service to them as well.

Various other groups have protested about climate change for decades using non-disruptive means and have been ignored by governments. It is proven not to work and we don’t have time now.[/quote]
Its like banging your head against a wall.

People do not take XR seriously. Which is their own fault

The huge amount of retires professionals could run this properly and become someone the general ou lic listens to and supports. Many groups do make differences this way

XR, apparently has a wealth of experiences and knowledge and could get people on bairns and make a real impact. With the people involved, their back grounds they could be more effective.

I mean this is just based on the people the op and others have claimed are making up the majority of XR.

If XR could get the majority of the general public on board, they could influence real change. But that's not what they want.

They prefer to damage the general publick with some misguided notion that will bother the government. But fuck the people you are screwing over. They will get screwed over by climate change, so doesn't matter if XR doing.

Its a hugely arrogant attitude. It shows that no one actually cares the the vulnerable will the first to be impacted. It's hypocritical.

I mean look at the ops posts, no clue. Telling people that they should risk arrest and stand with her (but only when she is retires and it won't have a real impact her) and risk their livilhood (but she won't be risking hers) to protest.

As though the only protest there has ever been has been XR. No comprehension, that people may disagree with XR. But still partake in protests.

Op acting as through she has actually taken the risk and challenging other people to take those risks. That she hasn't taken and won't until, she has less at stake.

Ops posts are how people generally perceives XR, because that's how they come across.

When XR actually become someone I can, in good conscience, stand with, I will.

@NeverDropYourMooncup the point of retired people putting themselves up for arrest is that they typically have less to lose, surely. In general volunteers for any cause do what is within their capacity. You can bet that younger people and those who cannot risk arrest are volunteering in supporting roles such as managing social media and websites, managing finances, coordinating their local group, making banners, etc.

I'd have quite a lot to lose if I went in for this, but clearly I'm not going to get involved.

@Hypnoshiding I have watched this unfold since the 80s. When governments continue to minimize or ignore peer reviewed science where the consensus is that urgent large scale action is essential, what makes you think that reorganizing a pressure group would make a difference?

@NantesElephanttbe op insists retired people have the same to lose as younger employed people. That's why it's ridiculous taht she is waiting until she is retired.

Why? When she will have the same to lose?

XR aren't going to get anywhere without large amounts of public support. You don't get that support by damaging vulnerable people. It can't apply pressure because people think they are joke.

And as I said, if they have huge amount of professionals to draw help from, they know this and continue.

Look at it this way. You live paycheck to pay check. Even the you can't keep your head above water. You can't get to work for 1-3 days. Which means you won't make it through the next month. And people who are happy to not be in work, prevent you getting to your paid job. And their reasoning is 'well in a few years you will be the worst impacted, so it doesn't really matter'. Can't you see how ridiculous that is. Don't you think these people will be saying 'but what about this month, you are bringing an impact on me right now'

Its like pensions. Everyone should have them, it's sensible. But some people have no spare money. You need to get through the next few weeks. Never mind, 0alnning for 30 years time.

If you think public support, doesn't really matter in this sort of thing, not sure there's much anyone can say.

[quote NantesElephant]@NeverDropYourMooncup the point of retired people putting themselves up for arrest is that they typically have less to lose, surely. In general volunteers for any cause do what is within their capacity. You can bet that younger people and those who cannot risk arrest are volunteering in supporting roles such as managing social media and websites, managing finances, coordinating their local group, making banners, etc.[/quote]
According to the OP, it's all middleclass retired professionals giving up 'everything' a few hours of their time for the benefit of the future -and those who actually stand to lose the ability to house and feed their children in the next three weeks through having their incomes fucked around by these highly privileged individuals protesting don't matter, compared to 'all the children' (ie, it'll affect white lives in the future).

It's a completely condescending attitude to hold towards people who are poor and of different ethnicities - oh, they won't mind when we tell them we're doing it for their benefit, really. And the government made us do it, anyway, so don't complain to us when you lose your jobs and can't feed your families. Just let us Professionals rich white folk fuck you over right now and you'll thank us later once we've educated you.

Hyp, yes and same with some measures the state is supporting like new house heating systems very very very few people are going to be able to afford ever. It is cloud cuckoo land, a delusion of the very rich.

Instead of causing mass disruption and being dirty feckers leaving litter on the floor, why don't ER start developing education programmes/campaigns for the general public? Tell us more ways we can do our bit?

While their behaviour is barely short of thuggish, and they show little or no understanding of the daily lives of people living and working in our towns & cities, I'm not remotely interested in them.

@Clydesider

Instead of causing mass disruption and being dirty feckers leaving litter on the floor, why don't ER start developing education programmes/campaigns for the general public? Tell us more ways we can do our bit?

While their behaviour is barely short of thuggish, and they show little or no understanding of the daily lives of people living and working in our towns & cities, I'm not remotely interested in them.

Because where’s the ‘fun’ in that…..they prefer their own little Central London ‘Glasto’ with McDonalds, Starbucks and KFC easily available!

Much more exciting to virtue signal to all their friends what edgy little activists they are while generally fucking up ordinary people’s lives (such jolly fun).

Then it’s back to the leafy suburbs to drive the 4 x 4 to Waitrose while the people who’s lives they fucked are getting payday loans to get to the end of the month (that’s what we had to do).

I agree with you though, if they really have all these highly intelligent people on board then they could well come up with some very effective strategies if only they’d try……

Just popping back to laugh at the insinuation I'm a vegan oil baron.
Good thing I'm not. That'd be terribly outing.

As you were.

@54321nought

I do wonder why people keep wanting to repeat "WORK-SHY! PRIVILEDGED! WORK-SHY! PRVILEDGED! WORK-SHY!"

If I was going to have a rant like this I'd at least spell "privileged" correctly.

A teacher you say..?

@NantesElephant

Of course the government don’t care, but they are more than happy for you to get angry with protesters, or get wound up by litter, as it distracts you from the real problem, which is that humans extract 13,992,000,000,000 liters of oil per day. That’s equivalent to 35,259,840,000 tonnes of CO2. That should terrify you and if it doesn’t you need to read some information about climate science.

Do you have a source for this?

Your oil extraction figures look to be out by a, not insignificant, factor of 1,000.

sofia the climate crisis is happening and it’s cause is man-made. There is too much oil coming out of the ground.

And trying to discredit a poster because there was a typo in their post comes over as incredibly petty.

@Darker

sofia the climate crisis is happening and it’s cause is man-made. There is too much oil coming out of the ground.

And trying to discredit a poster because there was a typo in their post comes over as incredibly petty.

It's not petty when it's a fact completely relevant to the discussion.

Most recent figures suggest that 88,391,000 barrels were extracted per day during 2020. A barrel contains 159 litres. 88.391m x 159 = 14,054,169,000l. Or, to use words, 88 million barrels or 14 billion litres.

She, however, stated it was 14 trillion litres/88 billion barrels.

It's a hugely statistically significant error - and if a fundamental such as that is wrong, as with all statistics, it instantly means any assertion by the speaker is thrown into doubt. You HAVE to get your facts right to have even the slightest hope of changing minds, whether at an individual or governmental level.

After all, if you had a tax bill for £1,000,000 when you actually owe a grand, you'd never trust anything HMRC ever said again, would you? If you wanted to buy a bottle of wine costing a tenner with a meal, you'd be pretty bloody pissed off if it came up on your restaurant bill as £10,000 and the manager said 'well, it's just a typo, it's a bit mean to point that out before handing over your credit card'. And if the same magnitude of error were to be applied to Anthropogenic Climate Change predictions, we wouldn't be generally fucked over the coming generations, we'd be chemical components in lava as the entire earth would have melted.

Sloppy reporting/claims that have errors in them damage any cause. You just can't let them go and dismiss the significance afterwards. As it was, the CO2 emissions were 'correct' for the true value (was that another mistake and the PP intended for them to be higher?), but thanks to the original error, I've paid more heed to the facts and checking them than the emotive 'you should be terrified by the big numbers I've typed here wrongly' statement.

And trying to discredit a poster because there was a typo in their post comes over as incredibly petty.

There's no typo. It's just plain wrong.

Sofia

If I was going to have a rant like this I'd at least spell "privileged" correctly. You made this point, yes?

The question of big numbers of oil coming out of the ground - frankly its academic because scientists have now agreed the planet is on code red. People like me don't have the scientific knowledge to know how much is too much, or where the decimal place needs to be. And whether I am sorting my recycling correctly (I try) or put on another jumper in winter when its cold (yes) won't change that.

We need governments and the multi billionaires that control them and the media to act.

Good lines "Because where’s the ‘fun’ in that…..they prefer their own little Central London ‘Glasto’ with McDonalds, Starbucks and KFC easily available!

Much more exciting to virtue signal to all their friends what edgy little activists they are while generally fucking up ordinary people’s lives (such jolly fun).

Then it’s back to the leafy suburbs to drive the 4 x 4 to Waitrose while the people who’s lives they fucked are getting payday loans to get to the end of the month (that’s what we had to do)."

reminds me of S. Khan who apparently took 3 huge gas guzzler vehicles 4 miles including his security to walk his dog in Battersea park when there were closer parks near by this weekend and yet he is always going on about the environment.

My big hope is that the Police will step back & let the public deal with them, as happened last year on the underground (which they're no longer targeting as a result).

Real people with real jobs and lives just don't have time for these spoilt, posturing wastes of space....

@Darker

Sofia

If I was going to have a rant like this I'd at least spell "privileged" correctly. You made this point, yes?

The question of big numbers of oil coming out of the ground - frankly its academic because scientists have now agreed the planet is on code red. People like me don't have the scientific knowledge to know how much is too much, or where the decimal place needs to be. And whether I am sorting my recycling correctly (I try) or put on another jumper in winter when its cold (yes) won't change that.

We need governments and the multi billionaires that control them and the media to act.

@Darker

If I was going to have a rant like this I'd at least spell "privileged" correctly. You made this point, yes?

Yes I did.

It's not a typo despite what you're trying to assert.

@Clydesider

Instead of causing mass disruption and being dirty feckers leaving litter on the floor, why don't ER start developing education programmes/campaigns for the general public? Tell us more ways we can do our bit?

While their behaviour is barely short of thuggish, and they show little or no understanding of the daily lives of people living and working in our towns & cities, I'm not remotely interested in them.

There are many many other groups that do the education etc, that is not the role of ER,

@Darker

sofia the climate crisis is happening and it’s cause is man-made. There is too much oil coming out of the ground.

And trying to discredit a poster because there was a typo in their post comes over as incredibly petty.

Thank you @darker

I am severely dyslexic, and I know that there are always going to be a few posters on MN that are sneery and bullying to dyslexics, I don't pay them any regard.

If their tactic is to attack me for my disability, then I just disregard their posts totally, they are not people who have anything to say, and are not worth engaging with

But thank you for your response, it is always reassuring to see that most people are kinder and more considerate

This thread is completely bonkers. Ops claims are a pile of rubbish.

Are they all typos?

Its a prime example of why people think XR are detached from reality, privileged people who don't actually care about the cause, just causing a bit of trouble and have no problem lying to make them appear legitimate.

Its no wonder that's the general publics perception of them. And its their own fault.

@Darker

Sofia

If I was going to have a rant like this I'd at least spell "privileged" correctly. You made this point, yes?

The question of big numbers of oil coming out of the ground - frankly its academic because scientists have now agreed the planet is on code red. People like me don't have the scientific knowledge to know how much is too much, or where the decimal place needs to be. And whether I am sorting my recycling correctly (I try) or put on another jumper in winter when its cold (yes) won't change that.

We need governments and the multi billionaires that control them and the media to act.

They certainly wouldn't have agreed if the multiple studies had fucked up the reporting of their figures, would they? The studies would have to have been withdrawn, which would have been absolutely perfect for those invested (emotionally and financially) in the use of fossil fuels.

Governments don't act unless there is sizeable support for something - you don't get support from fucking over poor and BAME people financially right now. You don't get support/trust from not managing to tell the difference between a billion and a trillion and then saying it doesn't matter anyhow. Large media organisations won't publish stuff that could get others onside if there's a story that will generate more clicks in you harming poor people or publishing incorrect figures. If you look at the Papal Indulgences that the UK carbon offsetting scheme represented, you would find that (subject of one of my projects for my degree) even when Labour were in power, most of the cabinet had business interests in the fossil fuel industry and if they didn't, they had spouses or siblings in there instead.

It takes more than a few wealthy white pensioners spreadeagled across Westminster Bridge to make changes when the structure is so weighted in favour of increasing consumption, maintaining inequality and fundamentally, people will always act in what they see to be their own best interests, even when being altruistic, as that's just been reframed as being in their own best interests. It takes changing minds. Many, many minds. And you don't achieve that from harming the little people because their daily struggles are so inconsequential in XR's minds.

Dyslexia doesn’t make people invent statistics.