to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

This appears to be turning into a thread/argument about class rather than a cause. How very MN.🍿

I think @54321nought Is busy getting some resources together for us, after all if they actually care about the environment, access to education etc, they would be assisting others by providing peer reviewed statistics.

So if they choose not to do this we know that they’re not particularly bothered.

Now the KFC apologist has flounced. Any links to any groups that do good for the environment would be appreciated.

Who went to university to study to be a GP 50 years ago, when it was free!

You can not be this dense. Yes uni was free. So why didn't lots of poor people go?

Because most had to start work really young to help out their families. Being able to afford to have to go straight into full time work was a privilege.

The most intelligent and hard working candidates!

Plenty of people, now on their 60s worked far harder than, GPs will have ever done.

I don't know where you live but here many of the people worked in mines. You aren't going to tell me, these young men going in a mine, weren't as intelligent or hard working as someone attending uni. Many of them just couldn't take the opportunity.

Many from the lowest income brackets, council tenants, soldiers sons and daughters - ( soldiers orphans often enough

Again, would over to see some evidence that uni attendees in lates 60s, early 70s were made up of people whose parents were in tbe lowest income bracket.

If you think the medical students 50 years ago were drawn from "privilege" then you are very much mistaken

Are you joking? You broke in the 60s and 70s most people going to study to be a doctor, did not come from a privilege back ground? They came from the poorest households?

They were not then, and they are not now, (although statistically slightly more so now) - medical schools want the best candidates, and screen out any advantage that early life privilege adds to the applications, so that they do get the best candidates - they are not stupid!

OK, a good friend of mine is a doctor. She got loans. But she also needed alot of financial support from her parents, as she was also unable to work and study at the same time. Do you think the poorest households can afford to help their children out like that?

Universities, especially, top ones have a huge history of nepotism. There's was a huge drive to get children from under privileged backgrounds in to uni. Because when you applied to uni, they didn't just want the best candidates. They wanted people from the right back grounds.

Its completely baffling to me that you appear to deny that privilege has ever impacted the quality of education people get and the opportunities they have. It happens now, was worse in the past.

The fact that you believe this, suggests you are one of the privileged but pleased with the 'no I worked hard for everything I have' so you can ignore the damage you are doing to people who are genuinely poor now.

I wasn't sure about joining them, but this thread has really made my mind up to do it.

Yes you were.

You are actually the sort of XR person that people have an issue with.

You have spouted so much rubbish on this thread, with absolutely no factual back up.

You can't offer and data to back up anything.

Just keep saying 'but retired'.

@DismantledKing

I wasn't sure about joining them, but this thread has really made my mind up to do it.

Yeah, right. Course you weren’t.

😂😂😂 As if this hasn't been a thread to say how amazing XR are in the first place, bet OP has been a member for ages.

@BelleOfTheProvince

So you spoke to a group did you. I'm glad you have a platform to air the public's concerns and change things. Stop making excuses. Use your platform. Change things.

You have a pr problem that's pretty urgent. Whatever your intentions you are doing more harm to your cause than good.

Address that.

If you don't you should question your own motivations.

you misunderstand me, I mean I approached a group at an event, and asked them about themselves and their action, not that I was formally addressing a group.

This isn't the first time I've been to see a demonstration.

And yes, most ER activists I have come across are retired professionals

I am retiring soon myself

@54321nought Have you found some stats you can share yet, or the title of a paper?

We'll use it as an opportunity to fix what's rotten at the core of xr.
That activists litter
That action is counter productive(stopping public transport)
That activists don't practice what they preach and openly support companies and practice that is bad for the environment (no more KFC on protests-sorry!)
That getting arrested and trusting in the system is itself a position of privilege
That future protests need better planning so emergency services aren't impacted

[quote SimonJT]@54321nought Have you found some stats you can share yet, or the title of a paper?[/quote]
sorry what? I'm not looking for any stats||? what stats do you think I'm looking for? If you want stats, find them yourself.

Anything I've said here is either well established, such as university access past and present, or there are no stats. There is no membership list for ER, and I am just basing it on my 4 or 5 times visiting them, in which I have met several hundred activists, mostly past retiring age, and of the ones I have actually asked, most are retired professionals, as I said

If you want to know ( and I suspect you don't really) either look it up or ask them yourself

Ah, so you’re unwilling to back up what you’re saying. I see, usually that means someone is telling lies and thinks other people won’t notice.

Oh and you might want to mention that the public are well informed on climate change.

There are stats, and they back up my version; few working class children went to university in the 1970s.

@SimonJT

Ah, so you’re unwilling to back up what you’re saying. I see, usually that means someone is telling lies and thinks other people won’t notice.

As I said, if you want to know, which I doubt, then you can find out for yourself - what ever it is ( don't know what statistics you are talking about, buy the way)

But what you actually want to do is think you can jerk people around on the end of a piece of string, making them jump through hoops for you

I'm just here because I enjoy the chat. I'm not here to work! If you actually WANT to confirm something I have said, you can do so.

Basically, you know I am telling the truth - about everything I have said, or about whatever thing you specifically are picking up on,

People can believe me, or not believe me and be wrong

It doesn't make any difference to me

@BelleOfTheProvince

Oh and you might want to mention that the public are well informed on climate change.

Good - the government are not acting though!

The point of these protests is to cause as much inconvenience and disruption as possible.

That gets attention and creates pressure. (Whatever the DM says)

And, I agree with poster above - you think protests are inconvenient? Wait until you're trying to live in a world that can no longer grow enough to eat because of climate change, or where major cities flood, or there's extreme storms regularly, or fire or landslides - all beginning to happen now.

Plus, we've already been warned: expect more pandemics as animals lose habitat and are forced into closer contact with humans.

We are already royally fucked as a planet and I very much fear we will be the last people able to grow up taking our lives for granted.

If we care about our children and grandchildren we should be treating this as the urgent crisis it is (however incovenient).

@54321nought So you think you know the proportion of working class/poor students in the 1950/1960s yet you don’t know what the stats are. If you don’t know what statistics I’m talking about, how do you know what proportion of university students were working class/poor?

It's not about 'inconvenience'.

It's about lack of forethought.
Protests on public transport have lost a person their job.
An emergency services worker had said they've stopped them getting through.
Someone else could not get to their medical appointment.

And sorry, I don't buy it's really about the planet when it's always on sunny days and involves a visit to McDonald's or KFC.

Plus, we've already been warned: expect more pandemics as animals lose habitat and are forced into closer contact with humans.

This is another reason why I am vegan. The biggest risk of pandemics comes from farming animals for meat.

“That's a bit of a circular argument, as the main definition of middle class is "went to university"

And anyone can go to university, if they are intelligent and work hard, and get loans

So your definition of "middle class and privileged" is "intelligent, hard working and chooses to take out the loans to go to university"

And, decades ago, when the currently retired generation went, if was free, - and far more people from lower income families went, so the definition would simply be "intelligent, hardworking and chose to be educated"

so your objection to these particular ER activists is that they are intelligent, hardworking, chose to be educated, then worked for 40 or 50 years......”

I’m sorry @54321nought but you are just wrong and making assumptions to fit your argument.

I am 66, so the age group that you are claiming to know so much about. In the early 70’s very few ‘working class’ people went to University. It may have been free and grants were available if you qualified but the vast majority of working class families could not afford to send a child to Uni.

The Working Class were not encouraged to go to University by the State or the schools, many were actively discouraged as class snobbery was prevalent and the working classes were expected to work.

I find the whole tone of your argument here to be smug and elitist, which is how I’ve found most of the XR ‘activists’ that I’ve had the misfortune to meet.

Apologies that the quote is not clear, I couldn’t quote the OPs post so had to copy & paste.

Extinction rebellion is a group that take direct action to raise awareness about the need to protect the environment and limit climate change oh.. so the ones who flooded the sewers and in turn the rivers with the fake blood? Yeah brilliant ..

You talk about sacrifice, but I don't see it from xr. Getting arrested if you are retired means nothing. Protesting in central London and getting takeaway food is hardly a hardship.

Real sacrifice involves making an effort. And then getting the government to implement measures for business and the public to do the same.
I'd be interested to see how many xr protesters melted away like snow if they campaigned to get rid of subsidiaries for meat farmers. Because it would mean a big lifestyle change. How many are willing to do that? You saw that video right, 'That's for the government to decide'. No planning, expecting others to do the work. Other movements have had people actually coming up with solutions to problems. Not just whining that something should change.

@BelleOfTheProvince

Plus, we've already been warned: expect more pandemics as animals lose habitat and are forced into closer contact with humans.

This is another reason why I am vegan. The biggest risk of pandemics comes from farming animals for meat.

But unless everyone changes how we interact with animals across the globe, people going vegan won't make any difference. There are plenty of communities around the world where people rely on bushmeat or keeping a few chickens, and these are also the communities most likely to be affected by the climate crisis.

This is where its a mistake to focus on the 'I'm not listening to you because you ate a KFC' argument. XR are very clear about this - its not about blaming individuals. We all need to get on board, whether we have been earning our lentil-eating, no plastic spoon credentials since the 1960s or are the CEO of an oil well.

And do you think the majority of xr will want to be forced to make those changes? The government can't change the way we interact with animals because people's lifestyles would have to change. Either way it's not just government responsibility. People need to take individual responsibility too.