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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Employers think they own us

110 replies

changingsheets · 19/08/2021 14:48

Name change.

I had a holiday request granted for October approved when I asked for it back in June.
They have now declined my request, stating it's due to staffing issues.

Because it had been accepted I went and booked a holiday to go and visit family, who have also booked the time off so we can all spend time together.

I work 5 days but lately they either add on an extra shift, or extra hours onto my actual shift. So if I'm supposed to be on a 7-3 they'll change it to 7-5. They don't ask, they just expect you to do it. So you cannot make any plans at all.

The rules are already in place where you cannot have holidays in June, July, August and December. So that's why I decided on October.

Aibu to think that a lot of employers think they own us? I know I'm being ridiculous but I'm so angry!

I cannot quit because I have children and the family rely on my wage. I am looking for other work but all the jobs in my area are 20 hours per week or under. One was a 4 hour contract!

OP posts:

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 19/08/2021 16:18

Fuck that.

I would reply saying unfortunately the holiday is now booked and is non-refundable, you will be going.

I would also start looking for a new job. Do you work in retail? My retail experience was identical to this, absolutely no care for the employees' welfare or home life.

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 19/08/2021 16:19

@changingsheets

I'm looking for a new job. I'm printing out CVs as I'm typing.

It wasn't always like this, then all managers and directors were replaced and everything changed.

They want us on the floor 15-20 minutes before/after the start of our shift for handover. We do not get paid for this. That's 30-40 minutes per day!

We barely get breaks, if we do we are constantly interrupted. The break would mean half an hour without wearing a mask which would be amazing for the chapped skin around my mouth.

Can you guess my job?

Fucking hell, is it Amazon?

emsie12345 · 19/08/2021 16:20

@DynamoKev

YANBU. This is the outcome from when Thatcher asked us if we wanted companies or unions in charge and we chose companies. We have abolished any kind of proper balance between employers and employees. It won't last though - the pandemic has shifted things quite a bit and Brexit has stemmed the unlimited supply of cheap labour from Eastern Europe. (Some) employers are going to have to start being a bit more reasonable; it's overdue.

Well said dynamokev

MissyB1 · 19/08/2021 16:22

@changingsheets

I'm looking for a new job. I'm printing out CVs as I'm typing.

It wasn't always like this, then all managers and directors were replaced and everything changed.

They want us on the floor 15-20 minutes before/after the start of our shift for handover. We do not get paid for this. That's 30-40 minutes per day!

We barely get breaks, if we do we are constantly interrupted. The break would mean half an hour without wearing a mask which would be amazing for the chapped skin around my mouth.

Can you guess my job?

Carer?Nurse?

Sounds just like the NHS to me…

OlympicProcrastinator · 19/08/2021 16:27

I sympathise OP. I once worked somewhere that expected you to book all your annual leave in January. So you couldn’t go to a concert / festival / birthday / hen do or anything unless you knew it was going to happen at the start of the year. Absolutely no spontaneous plans could be made. I left sharpish.

pinkcircustop · 19/08/2021 16:42

@TheWhalrus

Sounds like you need to have a word. Either with your boss or (if possible) your union. I suspect the law has probably been broken here. If it hasn't then this certainly isn't a good way to manage staff.

Of course the law hasn’t been broken

Employers have the right to decline leave as long as they give the same amount of notice as the leave ie. a weeks holiday needs a weeks cancellation notice.

The employer has given OP plenty of notice.

pinkcircustop · 19/08/2021 16:43

@LIZS

Unfortunately leave can be cancelled with notice, think minimum notice period is double the duration. Whether your shift patterns meet the working tine directive and minimum wage criteria might be worth exploring. Is it a business with recruitment and staff retention problems?

No, it’s not double. It’s the same eg. a weeks holiday needs a weeks cancellation notice.

1000yardstare · 19/08/2021 16:50

You made arrangements with their original consent and are not available for work that week. Tough tatties for them.

Leave, then go work for the cover/ bank they would undoubtedly bring in to cover you.

Most liberating.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 19/08/2021 16:55

My last job was like this. They would cancel my leave because we were busy. They did double pay me, but I didn't want the money, I wanted a week off.

Thank god I now work in a job with a fairly good union. And I hope it stays that way.

If you'd booked flights etc, they'd just expect you to loose the money.

RedHelenB · 19/08/2021 16:58

I'd call their bluff and say you've booked it ,in the 8 months when you're allowed leave and you're going. I'd be surprised if they sack you if they have a high turnover of staff .

Jent13c · 19/08/2021 17:00

Feeling this post. Why are you coming in before you get paid though? Surely they can't performance manage you for not working uncontracted hours which you aren't being paid for? And why don't you sit for the entire time of the break allocated to you?

I used to come in early and stay late and feel a responsibility to my employer but now I turn up exactly on time, take each break for the full period in my contract and leave when my shift ends. The more you do for them (like them trying to make you stay til 3 when your shift ends at 1) the more they expect from you...just say no. You don't owe them anything above what your contract says so you shouldn't feel any guilt. Its especially bad if you are in healthcare because they will say things like "there will be no one to look after those patients". There absolutely is an escalation process for when there is staffing issues they are just choosing not to use it and worst came to worst I'm sure a manager could take a bay!

Would it be worth calling their bluff and handing in your notice and seeing if they change their mind on approving the hols?

MattHancocksSexTape · 19/08/2021 17:04

@changingsheets are you on minimum wage? The 20min before/after thing could be illegal if you are.

LaurieFairyCake · 19/08/2021 17:06

I would just tell them I'd booked the flights - I assume you've paid for them already ?

They've already blocked out 4 months of the year

I would also start working to rule - you're in a shit job, why would you give away 40 minutes free every day ?

Take your legally allowed breaks

If they fire you (well it's there problem, you just said they can't keep staff) - you will get another job

This is literally why I work for myself - I wouldn't do any of the above

FatAnkles · 19/08/2021 17:24

I've been in the same industry for 2 decades. At one location the manager regularly changed my shift two hours forwards with no notice. It really impacted my family life. It was really poor planning. I rang up my union and they sent someone down to have a word. It was sorted out very quickly. So ring your union, they should find someone to help you, even if they don't normally represent you.

theworldsbiggestcrocodile · 19/08/2021 17:26

I'm a manager (social care) and I would NEVER do this to my staff. During Covid I've asked people if they are willing to cancel leave (and lots were as they wanted to help and also there was nowhere for them to go anyway when we were locked down), but I've never unilaterally cancelled leave, as I just don't think it's fair or any way to treat staff. If needs be I've used agency to cover as I'd rather the expense of that then the expense of losing a valued team member, their good will and their experience.
I hope you get a new job soon OP. Life is to short to be beholden to your employer in this way.

l2b2 · 19/08/2021 17:33

It can't be an NHS job, as even if the Union rep was off sick, there would be a deputy.

TSSDNCOP · 19/08/2021 17:37

If it's Amazon tell them about the new HR Director that's on their way to make all you lives better!

Puddington · 19/08/2021 17:38

@changingsheets

I'm looking for a new job. I'm printing out CVs as I'm typing.

It wasn't always like this, then all managers and directors were replaced and everything changed.

They want us on the floor 15-20 minutes before/after the start of our shift for handover. We do not get paid for this. That's 30-40 minutes per day!

We barely get breaks, if we do we are constantly interrupted. The break would mean half an hour without wearing a mask which would be amazing for the chapped skin around my mouth.

Can you guess my job?

Sounds like when I used to work at Next years ago, down to not being able to book holidays during certain months because of the all-consuming hell of the sales, and the unpaid handovers. There were aspects of that job I really liked, like merchandising and admin things, and a lot of my colleagues were great, but head office decisions and constant understaffing/expecting you to go above and beyond for minimum wage constantly really ground me down.

Shiloh139 · 19/08/2021 17:41

As others have already said, it is outrageous but unfortunately your employer is legally allowed to do this. I looked into this a few years ago. I THINK I remember reading that the employer has to compensate you if you suffer financial loss due to having to cancel booked holiday e.g. flights accommodation but I also THINK I remember reading that they can say they'll only pay for your costs, not the costs of the whole family rescheduling/cancelling. You should look into this if it could help and other than that, I would say start looking for a new job and ideally you'll find something that will enable you to hand your notice in and still go on your holiday as planned. Hope you can get it sorted OP.

Mybalconyiscracking · 19/08/2021 17:41

I would just say that I was going. They won’t want to sack you if you are a good worker and they are struggling for staff.

eeyore228 · 19/08/2021 17:42

I think they believe that we live to work! I work part time and someone booked me in for some training for half a day expecting I could do it. I leave at 5 in the morning to get to work and work on the days I have childcare. When I stated I could not do this I was questioned as to why I couldnt put the children in breakfast club or with a friend...at 5 in the morning! On top.of that the cost.of travel and childcare far outstrips what I get paid.

SapatSea · 19/08/2021 18:19

Sounds like retail (Aldi?) or Carer.

PaperMonster · 19/08/2021 19:00

I reckon it’s Amazon. If your rep is off sick, you can always contact the regional office.

Erwhatno · 19/08/2021 19:11

Are they planning to pay for your cancelled holiday etc?

LEMtheoriginal · 19/08/2021 19:14

Dont get me started!! Havent RTFT but we just got a memo from head office telling us we arent allowed to socialise outside of work in case we get pinged. This is the company that forced working practices that resulted in us all getting Covid at Christmas and someone actually being put on a disciplinary because of it 🤔

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