Evacuation form Afghanistan- women?

[Aprilinspringtimeshower]

So saw this article and the accompanying photo www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/17/afghanistan-striking-image-appears-to-show-640-people-fleeing-kabul-in-packed-us-military-plane?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This is what concerns me- where are the women? The overwhelming majority of people on that plane are men, adult males. There are a few women and some children.
Yet it is the women who are in greatest danger. Young girls, older women. Single women who won’t be able to support themselves once stopped from going outside unaccompanied, professional women who will be banned from working .

Everyone said that the war was about women’s right and way of life. And that what is happening now is a danger to the rights and well-being of women.

Surely it is women who are the ones that need to get out of the country safely and be offered asylum- so where are they? Why wasn’t that plane full of mostly women or even equal amounts of women and the men that accompany them.

I don’t hear the government saying anything to target protection and refuge for women specifically. And to young girls and women who are in real danger

AIBU that it is always the men that get the preference, and that really no one cares enough to actually provide proper protection to the women and girls ..it’s just all sound bites and noble words

Does anyone really believe that the men are fleeing so they can scope out a new country and their women and children will later join them?

Do you really see the taliban government of Afghanistan letting thousands of women and children leave to join relatives in the west?

Greatest danger will probably be those who worked for Western armed services as translators and support, those who worked for the previous government and whom were viewed as enemies. I don't minimise the terrible effects on women and girls but I'd expect the vast majority of executions to be of men.

@BrilloPaddy

We said the same, watching the news last night.

A horde of men, leaving their women and kids behind to face whatever.

By staying they’d be executed immediately - as they are known to work for the military. And their families would not be spared either.

If one person gets out and earns they can send for the rest later (or gather enough money to pay smugglers).

The U.S plan has finite space so if you say each person can bring their family then you condemn others to die.

Do PPs think the Birkenhead drill would be expected now in Western countries?

@Proudboomer

Does anyone really believe that the men are fleeing so they can scope out a new country and their women and children will later join them?

Do you really see the taliban government of Afghanistan letting thousands of women and children leave to join relatives in the west?

They’ll pay smugglers - nobody’s suggesting they’re all just going to head to the airport and fly off.

@TractorAndHeadphones agree and it's possible those widows might be forcibly married immediately whereas those in marriages with emigrated/refugees might not have enforced divorce?

@Whatafustercluck

I thought the same op. See also migrant boats. I am in no way doubting that those people (mostly men) have come from the most appallingly desperate circumstances. But where are the women? Who is helping them?

Normally it's the men who leave as they are escaping fighting/war and aim to work to send home money to families. Also, sad to say, a lot of women do cross but die on the way.

A lot of them will be fearing being press-ganged into the Taliban.

Or they will have worked as interpreters (etc. etc.) and are in danger from that point of view.

Ultimately, if those were the people on the runway begging to be evacuated, then you take the people that are there. You couldn't expect the US army to go out, find some more women who wanted to be evacuated, and leave those men behind just to make the gender balance look better in the photos.

@Aprilinspringtimeshower

And still the troops (Yes, UK as well) were taking under the table payments so the men could rape women and children and also continue to live by their own rules in some areas.

It was never about women and kids and the only reason they are saying it now is to justify the entire shitshow, all 20 years of it. It was about money.

It was the very first thing I thought of when I saw the footage.

In essence nobody in power - or anyone with any sway actually really gives a fuck about women. Some women do. Some men do, but these aren't the people that truly matter in emergency situations and even husbands and sons are running for the fucking planes rather than help their wives and daughters.
I am beyond disgusted with humanity generally. Seriously.
When I studied exodus from the USSR at the very beginning it was amazing how many women were left to rot basically. It is nothing new.

No brave new world for women. Just the same old shit. Day after Day.

@RoseAndRose

The men will be thise who have worked for the international organisations - the interpreters, drivers etc.

They are more numerous than women employees simply because of the nature of the employment market there and the huge under-representation of women in most roles.

When people say we have a moral duty to rescue those who are at risk of execution because we employed them, this is what it look like.

Those who have been employed by foreigners are the highest risk if left behind. It's not like the risk men v women amongst those who have not worked for foreign organisations.

Remember that plane was well after the civilian side of the airport had closed. It wasn't for thise who just turned up

This with bells on. Four interpreters were murdered out side their homes on Thursday night these wherever brave men who helped the west speak to people they wouldn't normally be able to speak to. These people are in grave danger too. The Uk have said they are planning on evacuating women and children so they will make sure its women and children.

In this situation I know my much older dB would run first and save himself as would many uncles and cousins.
Df wouldn't and to be honest, dh would never leave our girls but he might leave me

@Valorgreen

So they just abandon their wives? Their teenage daughters? Their young children? Hmmm…

I've seen a few posts like this and, honestly, those who make them make my skin crawl.

How fucking dare you judge those who are fleeing for their lives. What gives you that right? If you're so concerned about the fate of women in Afghanistan go and help instead of sitting in your privilege casting judgement on those who had to choose between leaving everything behind or being executed for daring to try and change their country.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Very well said.

[quote Sylvvie]@Aprilinspringtimeshower

And still the troops (Yes, UK as well) were taking under the table payments so the men could rape women and children and also continue to live by their own rules in some areas.

It was never about women and kids and the only reason they are saying it now is to justify the entire shitshow, all 20 years of it. It was about money.[/quote]
Where exactly has then been said? I’ve read several publications and nobody’s pretended that the war was about human rights.

It was to flush out terrorists groups. And the ‘nation-building’ presumably for the same end.

All for naught as the Taliban are well funded, well organised and can afford to sit out for however many decades.

sheworeyellow ah, dangers of skim reading everything. just found this though: www.newscientist.com/article/dn22119-sinking-the-titanic-women-and-children-first-myth/

Interestingly, the Titanic actually bucked the general trend.

If they were evacuating women and girls because of the Taliban's attitude to them, that would be 19 million people.

The flights are for people who have worked with the US. Presumably, their dependents too if they are on the spot. Many of these men will already have been in hiding or based away from families for work. They should get out asap. I hope the US and UK and other states involved will do everything they can to get women at risk out too, but that's likely to be from border crossings and perhaps sponsored and negotiated visas. UK has already given up on getting everyone who worked for them out.

They're not helping their families by staying with them if they can't get them out with them. I was reading an article yesterday about an interpreter on the run. He had left his extended families' village because they would all be endangered if he was found there.

Staying with your wife and children because you can't all get out together isn't going to help them. Wouldn't you encourage your dad / brother / son / husband to get the hell out and away from you in this awful situation? For your kids' sake, too?

@Wheretoeattweenandteen

In this situation I know my much older dB would run first and save himself as would many uncles and cousins. Df wouldn't and to be honest, dh would never leave our girls but he might leave me

It’s not selfish to want to live. And in this situation the men have it ‘marginally’ better. Yes they may not be raped and allowed to go to school but it will be a mainly religious education. And plenty are brutalised and killed. I’m presuming that the push to evacuate women is in their capacity as primary carers of children. But otherwise there’s no reason to pick an adult woman over a man (if gender’s the sole criteria).

Staying with your wife and children because you can't all get out together isn't going to help them. Wouldn't you encourage your dad / brother / son / husband to get the hell out and away from you in this awful situation? For your kids' sake, too?

I absolutely would but there's no way on earth my dad/husband/brother would have left us behind at the mercy of a brutal woman hating regime. The idea that these men have left their female relatives behind and are going to 'send for them later' is laughable and anyone who thinks they are is incredibly naive.

And I don't care how much that 'makes your skin crawl' 🙄

@Valorgreen

So they just abandon their wives? Their teenage daughters? Their young children? Hmmm…

I've seen a few posts like this and, honestly, those who make them make my skin crawl.

How fucking dare you judge those who are fleeing for their lives. What gives you that right? If you're so concerned about the fate of women in Afghanistan go and help instead of sitting in your privilege casting judgement on those who had to choose between leaving everything behind or being executed for daring to try and change their country.

Absolutely. There was a young Afghan man on Breakfast TV this morning. He had worked as an interpreter for the army and is one of 1000 now in the UK. There are another 15000 former interpreters still there. The British Government knew this was coming and could have got more out. They will be killed.

You cannot repatriate half population of 38 million, the only way to protect all the women was never to pull out of Afghanistan.

I guess it's weighing up the risks and self preservation too.
Man stays= no real value to new regime;probably going to be killed.
Woman and girls stay= they have some value- even if abhorrent. Less likely to actually be killed.

Man runs- might actually make it. Easier to find somewhere to stay.
Whole family run- hard to do. Hard to find somewhere to stay. Women and girls still face that of rape etc.

If dh were likely to be killed, then he'd have to go.

Also to add, have you seen that airport? The reason that there are so few children there is that it wasn't at all a safe place for a child to be. You'd only take your child if you felt that there was a serious chance you would get on a plane or if you felt your child's life was at risk. You certainly wouldn't be running with w child next to a moving plane trying to push them on.

I'm sure a lot of the men getting evacuated would have loved to have their families with them, but if they're facing being shot at dawn because they were working as an interpreter and so have an argument they can get on a flight, but know that there isn't any realistic hope their children will get the same treatment, I can't criticise any family or individual who made the choice to save who they realistically could. I suspect there will also be several people who refused to leave their families.

The Uk have said they are planning on evacuating women and children so they will make sure its women and children.

The UK can do that if it sticks with its current policy of processing slowly and grudgingly from refugee camps. Whether they'll manage it in Kabul on the ground remains to be seen. They're not exactly covering themselves with glory so far.

The mess they've made - and the US and other countries - affects men too. Rhetoric which only allows women and children to be vulnerable refugees plays well politically and stokes anti-refugee feeling. Men can be vulnerable and betrayed by international forces too (and of course most men, women and children come in family groups)

And I don't remember women's rights being the driver - wasn't it War on Terror and Winning Hearts and Minds to the Western Way?

Article in the guardian earlier with a quote from a woman who was being evacuated from her university on Sunday, no men would help them leave. They wouldn’t take them in their cars as didn’t want to be responsible for a woman. The men outside watching the women leave were taunting them with comments telling them to go and buy a burqa and saying “I will
marry 4 of you in a day”.

This is why women and children aren’t being seen on the photos.