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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that courts shouldn't give domestic abusers access to children?

82 replies

Yuui · 15/08/2021 19:12

I entirely understand that this is the AIBU section so I might get flamed, but this topic really does bother me.

I know more than one person whose partner seriously physically or sexually abused them and still got given access to their kids. Personally, I just can't see how this is a good idea? I mean, an adult who is happy to beat/rape/ ..etc [insert awful thing here] probably is going to be an unsafe influence on a child, unless there are some incredibly strong mitigating factors. What do the rest of you think about this matter?

OP posts:
Original poster
Yuui · 15/08/2021 19:43

I guess I don't really get it; I mean surely a child's physical and emotional safety is more important than having a particular person in their life?

If the other parent is a good parent then obviously it is in the child's best interest to see them. But, if the other parent's behaviour is so bad that SS would remove the child if they were in their sole care, then maybe they aren't a safe influence?

I know of someone whose ex committed incest on closely related children and still thinks he should see his child who he has had minimal contact with him. I guess I just think that that gives such a person the perfect opportunity to groom a child, because even if the meeting is supervised, seeing and spending time with such a person gives a child the idea that people who behave like that are 'safe', as otherwise wouldn't they be kept away?

OP posts:
beigebrownblue · 15/08/2021 19:44

@Peppapigforlife

İ think the ss saying that it's about the child not the parent is just an abusive statement in itself. And as if the mother's feelings don't affect their child in any way. So blind to think that an abusive person is only abusive to the woman and would be an angel to those angelic children and almost somewhat placing blame on the woman for the man being abusive. But İ think there are a lot of abusive set ups within social services anyway, which feel very Victorian in their thinking.
I agree, have experienced it myself and the Family Court is badly in need of reform.
drpet49 · 15/08/2021 19:44

* Abusers don’t want a relationship with their kids, they want a conduit to continue abusing their mother.*

^I agree

Peppapigforlife · 15/08/2021 19:44

@gardeninggirl68 you do realise you're on a website created for mother's issues. İssues we, as mothers, relate to. Therefore the common denominator in most conversations will be mothers. The clue is in the title. İf you want to vary up your language to fit your personal experiences, that's your personal choice, but İ have every right to relate to my female and mothering experiences with descriptions of female experiences.

SnoreyDog · 15/08/2021 19:46

I'm all for this. 16 years of witnessing domestic abuse towards my mother on a daily basis, treading on eggshells and generally being terrified every day has harmed me. The damage caused by experiencing and even just witnessing the behaviour of an abuser is huge. I'm now spending a fortune on therapy and have been doing for years, it has affected my mental health, relationships and my perspective on life and does so every single day. I wish that someone had known and cared enough for me and my siblings to have been taken away from him.

Theoldprospector · 15/08/2021 19:47

GardeningGirl, children don’t have a right to a relationship with a parent. Why would you think that was the case?

Thisnamewasnttaken123 · 15/08/2021 19:47

I agree with you OP you can't be a violent abuser and be a good parent.
The two don't go together.

PumpkinKlNG · 15/08/2021 19:48

PumpkinKlNG that is really really strange. I've known people who have been threatened by ss that if they had any contact with their violent ex they would have their child taken away.

well exactly, when I called the police on him they reported me to ss who only left because he wasn’t having an contact only to he told a few years later I should contact him 🤦‍♀️

BettyAndFrank · 15/08/2021 19:51

Yanbu

SafeMove · 15/08/2021 19:53

My ex left me with broken bones. He got 50/50, basically because he is rich. I can't do anything about it. He continues to try abuse me but luckily I have a barrier to that now. He has never physically abused the children.

However, he does coercively control them. And I can not tell you the untold damage that splitting their time 50/50 between two homes is causing. That is something that is overlooked most.

Thisnamewasnttaken123 · 15/08/2021 19:55

My violent ex was allowed supervised access.
He didn't bother with the kids and the difference it made over time once he stopped access for good was unbelievable my son who was the eldest at the time (my daughter was only a baby) was so much happier without him and flourished.
Being around violent abusers is bad for kids.
I do wish kids needs were recognised more in relation to this.

Peppapigforlife · 15/08/2021 19:55

@SafeMove I'm so sorry to hear that . İs that in the UK? I know 50/50 is common in the states whatever the circumstances.

Peppapigforlife · 15/08/2021 19:56

@Thisnamewasnttaken123 yeah and even if kids don't actually see what goes on, they can sense it and they're so in tune with who is a good person to be around and who isn't. A child isn't suddenly going to be comfortable completely around an abuser because an abuser has a whole personality of abuse, even if they try to hide it behind charm.

Peppapigforlife · 15/08/2021 19:59

İf the rules were changed, I'm sure a lot of abusers wouldn't get their partners pregnant just to have more control over them and a lot of women wouldn't stay with abusive men. A lot stay because they fear not being able to protect their child if their partner was given unsupervised access, or fear losing the child to manipulation. The rules as they are just enable more men to abuse women because they know they can use the children as a pawn.

PicsInRed · 15/08/2021 20:00

@Thelnebriati

Its not about the rights of the child. Its ideological.
This is it, absoutely.
Original poster
Yuui · 15/08/2021 20:07

@Peppapigforlife I didn't know that they did that, that's just awful

OP posts:
StrawberryPuff · 15/08/2021 20:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Yuui · 15/08/2021 20:27

@StrawberryPuff that is an important point. I am so sorry for what you've been through, and hope that life is better for you now

OP posts:
Thisnamewasnttaken123 · 15/08/2021 20:43

"@Thisnamewasnttaken123 yeah and even if kids don't actually see what goes on, they can sense it and they're so in tune with who is a good person to be around and who isn't. A child isn't suddenly going to be comfortable completely around an abuser because an abuser has a whole personality of abuse, even if they try to hide it behind charm."

Absolutely! I found also you think they don't see or hear things, that you hide it well, but kids arent stupid they see it, they feel it.
Best thing my ex ever did was not see my kids again, unfortunately he created more kids with someone else but she didn't leave straight away and the carnage he has left behind him after leaving her for someone else has been horrible.

Abusers don't generally stop abusing.
They aren't good for kids.
I have managed to give my children a decent upbringing, I left early enough when they were young enough to be able to repair.
When I look at his current ex and see what I could have ended up like after she stayed for longer and their kids are older, I am thankful I am not her.

gardeninggirl68 · 15/08/2021 20:52

[quote Peppapigforlife]@gardeninggirl68 you do realise you're on a website created for mother's issues. İssues we, as mothers, relate to. Therefore the common denominator in most conversations will be mothers. The clue is in the title. İf you want to vary up your language to fit your personal experiences, that's your personal choice, but İ have every right to relate to my female and mothering experiences with descriptions of female experiences.[/quote]
no its a site 'for parents' as in the MN strapline

theres a dads sub forum as well....its for all parents

gardeninggirl68 · 15/08/2021 20:57

@StrawberryPuff yes, its uncomfortable for a lot of people to acknowledge FEMALES as an abuser

but look at the news this week. women abusing children along with men.

its a grey area. people say abusers never change etc etc. well yes they can. some abusers are new parents, young themselves, lacking in knowledge and maturity. Too many people look at their own experiences and fix their minds to think its the same for every case, they don't consider the complexities of individual cases.....thats where the courts come in and hear case by case

Theunamedcat · 15/08/2021 20:57

@PumpkinKlNG

PumpkinKlNG that is really really strange. I've known people who have been threatened by ss that if they had any contact with their violent ex they would have their child taken away.

well exactly, when I called the police on him they reported me to ss who only left because he wasn’t having an contact only to he told a few years later I should contact him 🤦‍♀️

This in fucking spades ^^ children's services had the utter fucking gall to accuse me if being in a relationship with my ex despite my children saying he wasn't in the home and they never saw us together they went to pre proceedings with it to remove our kids then dropped it and said I must give him contact (I was not back with my ex his family were trying to get my children removed by claiming I was because they are utter cunts) so threaten to take my kids away over contact with ex and give ex contact im "watched" by the school for years to see if i got back with him (nope) my kids are traumatised from the constant questions my youngest accidentally put his dad in a "family"drawing they question his older brother (because youngest has a delay and can't speak) they didn't believe him till right at the end when he pointed out we didn't have dogs cats or goldfish either which also feature in the picture youngest later tells people the blob in the picture is grandad they ask him a week later its bing fucking bunny and baby Charlie

Senseless trauma

StrawberryPuff · 15/08/2021 21:06

@gardeninggirl68 I am uncomfortable with you selectively quoting my experience in this way.

Please let me speak for myself.

SoNotRainbowRhythms · 15/08/2021 21:20

[quote Peppapigforlife]@PumpkinKlNG that is really really strange. I've known people who have been threatened by ss that if they had any contact with their violent ex they would have their child taken away.[/quote]
Yes and then there are the cases where SS are saying no contact with abuser and the courts order contact. That happens and its not rare.

BungleandGeorge · 15/08/2021 21:45

As an adult I might agree but the children (and grown up children) that I know in similar situations have an inexplicable desire and need to see their other parent. I think if the child wants to see the parent then there should be some sort of supervised access not involving the other parent