Posting for traffic - exH not giving DS2 his medicine when they are with him

[Rinoachicken]

Looking for some MN advice please.

Background:

Separated from exH in 2016 after years of emotional and controlling abuse towards me and the kids and and sexual abuse towards me. He was removed by police but not enough evidence to charge him. SS said no threat to the boys so they advised he should be allowed contact.

So they see their dad eow for overnight contact. They are now 11 & 7.

My youngest DS has some additional needs and suffers from encopresis. He is under a consultant at the hospital for this. After many years treatment we are now happily at the point where it is being managed well with a stimulant laxative every night to make sure he goes every morning - the result is often explosive but DS2 has been able to get it in the toilet for the last 8 months which is another huge achievement.

Except exH refuses to give him the medicine when he is there. I know this because it breaks DS2 toileting rhythm. If he hasn’t had his medicine on Saturday night he then won’t be able to ‘go’ by himself on Sunday and sometimes it takes to Tuesday before he will be able to go again.

When I first questioned him (because DS2 said daddy had forgotten), he would say he’d simply forgotten, or deny it and say DS2 was not being truthful.

But then he had them for a whole week. When I got the bottle back it had not gone down at all. A bottle lasts a month so a quarter of the bottle should have been gone.

Again he denied it, said he’s only forgotten one day. I challenged him on that because I knew how much it should have gone down after a week. No reply.

So they went for the weekend again this weekend. This time I discreetly marked the bottle so I could tell easily if he’d had his dose.

The bottle has come back with half the contents gone!! Which would be the equivalent of 4/5 doses. So I suspect he knew I would check the level so just pupated some away - but because he’s not too bright he didn’t think to measure put and dispose of one dose, he just ‘guessed’.

I’ve messaged him to ask what has happened to the medicine as half the bottle is gone (4/5doses). No reply yet.

WTF do I do? He clearly won’t give the medicine - probably because he doesn’t want to have to ‘deal’ with any poo the next morning (DS2 still has a nappy at night as he does not have full control and on occasion he does his explosive poo in the nappy overnight or as soon has he wakes - but 95% of the time he gets to the loo).

Wow - sorry for the length!

Poor DS2. Is the contact court-ordered? Might be worth getting it reviewed and asking for no overnights, he's clearly incapable of meeting his son's basic needs.

*poured not pupated

Could your 11 yo be trusted to make sure his brother takes it?

I wouldn't let him go again, this is neglect. What does he have to gain from this?

Contact is not court ordered.

I don’t want to put the burden onto DS1 because he may then be exposed to his dads displeasure and that’s not fair

I would stop overnight contact and speak to a solicitor.

Your poor little lad.
I don't understand your exH at all.

I would contact your local safeguarding hub over this, just for a chat for some advice. Though if I was you in this situation I would see a solicitor ASAP you can have medication responsibilities added into CO. Of course this probably won’t make him stick to it, but it’s a possibility?

Really sorry your son is going through this, only person suffering is him. His dads being an idiot.

I would stop overnights too.

I will call children’s services in the morning - though not holding out much hope for any meaningful support. I’ve contacted them before when I’ve been concerned about something and they just say ‘well it’s not court ordered so you can stop contact if you think that’s best’ - without any comprehension of the reaction of my exH and how I might be worried about that after the years of abuse. Like it’s just a simple adult conversation with no risks.

Also thinking of saying no overnights unless he drives DS2 back home on the Saturday so I can give him the medicine myself and then he can take him back for bed. He’s too lazy for that though.

If I offer more contact, over school holidays etc he never wants it. he will never have them more than one week as ‘he needs break’.

When we first set up the contact it was done through a solicitor who worked pro Bono for my local DV organisation, who were supporting me at the time. Stipulated things like the boys needed to have their own beds (not sleeping on the floor in sleeping bags), and times and location for pick up and drop off etc. He was a dick throughout, wrote abusive letters to the solicitor etc.

If I got a solicitor to write that overnight contact was on the provision that he gives the medicine - would that have ANY legal grounding though? Or would it just be an expensive piece of paper?

This depends on how you think he will respond to it, will he be receptive or will he ignore it? If it’s the latter the it’d be an expensive piece of paper.

I’d come at it as a neglect issue with SS (because that’s what it is) and the effect it has on DS quality of life.

The very fact that he’s gone to the effort of tipping some out instead of just giving DS the medication shows that this is clearly both lazy parenting and a control issue with you.

Oh he is ALL about control

Stop contact and let him take you to court?

By the time that all happens your youngest will be older and perhaps his condition more settled as well.

I think I would email him and tell him yet again he hasn't given DS2 the appropriate dosage of consultant prescribed medication and it is damaging to him both short and long term so you cannot let him come for overnight contact anymore.

I really think you're going to need to go down the legal route. For all of it. The contact, the medication, the whole lot.
If he needs to contact you about anything it gets emailed and you can forward that to the solicitor.
All decisions about the children are legally binding. If he doesn't follow them, he's broken the terms and conditions of him being allowed visitation.
He no longer has control or power over you if you make it all legal.

Your poor DS - he must be in a lot of pain when he returns to you following his overnights with his dad. That's so unfair on him.

Been googling and found something called a specific issue order - which might be the way to go if necessary.

I’d be tempted to stop contact and make HIM get a court order for contact, at which point I’d say that’s fine, but I want it written in that he must give the medication as prescribed. But he probably won’t even bother and will just bad mouth me to my eldest (who has a phone so they talk over WhatsApp etc. - I monitor it but still).

So the other option is for me to just go ahead and get that now. Then if he breaches it I can say no more overnight.

Just dont know which is the right option.

The kids want to have contact as well so I need it to be clear why I’m removing that and be able to show them (in the future) that I did everything to facilitate it for them.

And yes, tomorrow DS2 will be complaining of tummy ache until he manages to go :(

And all the legal options cost a lot of money - which I’m not swimming in. I’ll do it if I have to of course but I’ll have to scrabble and save up first.

I would stop and let him take it to court.

In the meantime you could look at get a specific order. He certainly can't go again until it's sorted.

You could try for legal aid? You may not get it if it’s been a fair while since you’ve had DV support but you can always double check with the solicitor, they will do the forms with/for you.

Don’t forget there’s the free 30 mins, and it’s very easy to self represent these days if necessary. Mckenzie friends could help, there’s also law centres which I’m sure are law students who provide services at a low cost or pro bono?

You might find when you speak to SS/safeguarding about his neglect and you mention his emotional abuse of you and how this is just an extension of that, that you may again qualify for support or legal aid etc.

If I was you I’d stop overnights and wait for him to take you to court, that way you can just self represent and save on cost.

Also most law firms allow payment plans or ask for payment at the end of the services.

I wasn’t entitled to legal aid event when I was getting DV support and he was on bail with conditions to stay away and no contact, so doubt I’d get any now.

But I’m going to call SS in the morning and see what they say and then I think I’ll have to start looking at legal routes

Sorry as aside - my children had the same issue as your son. They were diagnosed hypermobile - the muscles in their digestive system did not work effectively. The only solution was daily movicol doses - but a big part of this was they needed to have them regularly. Consultant explained to me that if through constipation the bowel becomes stretched the muscles don't work effectively and the passage becomes a waiting room. The movicol soften the stool to ensure it returned into a passage and the muscles strengthened with practise. The explosive stools is making me wonder if he is only being given a muscle stimulant. Something that encourages the muscles to contract. We saw loads of consultants and some prefer certain meds but they don't always work as well as others on a practical level. I remember one my daughter had bright orange oil leaking out. Has your consultant tried a softner like movicol plus a bit of muscle stimulant? If his poos are explosive it sounds like he is having a lot of muscle stimulant. That aside what you ex is doing is effecting your son's health so I would speak to a GP and ask for there guidance.
Movicol is very easy - 1-2 satches of powder in water or juice and something your 11 year old could oversee if your ex hubby continues to be an ass.

Yes he was on movicol and the stimulant, then the movicol was reduced to firm up the stool a bit to be a ‘normal’ stool. He’s now not on any movicol - just the stimulant - his stools are extremely loose and unformed. I say ‘explosive’ but I’m reality he now has learned to recognise when he needs to go which he never had before, it was just constant leakage and no bowel control at all. So he can now get it in the toilet 95% of the time which has been life changing for him. It’s just that he has to go AS SOON AS HE FEELS THE URGE - he has no room for hanging on a bit, so sometimes if he’s distracted for example, he doesn’t quite make it. He withholds at school which doesn’t help, but is why it’s important he has the meds at night as then he goes in the morning first thing, before school.

He was due back to see the consultant in July, when I was expecting the stimulant dose to be reduced a little, but it’s been delayed due to Covid. But I think that’s the next step now yes.

I think its very interesting that if he is not on any stool softeners that he still has loose unformed stools. So either the stimulant dosage is too high and he's stools aren't getting a chance to form or maybe he needs some fibre like fibrogel. I know its a nightmare but hopefully when he is older he will start to grow out of this as I know many children who do.
Is there any way you can just send his meds in single doses in small plastic bags or small leak proof salad sauce pots like on the link below and ask your 11 year old to make sure he gets it at night? I get that your ex should be doing this but it sounds like he is not helpful and your son really needs these meds.
www.amazon.co.uk/Sistema-Dressing-Pots-Go-Containers/dp/B00BG4DH90/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=leakproof+lunch+sauce&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1629054227&sr=8-4