Very very stupid mask wearing restrictions (Scotland)

[perfectasalways]

So we went to the pub yesterday. You wore a mask on the way in but if you are sitting (no social distancing) you don't have to wear one. You order at the bar and have to wear the mask to order but if you chose to drink at the bar you don't need to wear a mask. Where is the sense in this. I could go clubbing with hundreds of others with no mask, go to a football match with no mask but if I want to order a drink I need a mask - where is the sense?

A lot of the pubs i went to this weekend not even the bar staff were wearing masks

Why don't people understand this - it is perfectly straight forward. Wearing a mask limits the spread. Wearing a mask some of the time limits the spread.

the rules don't have to be uniform to limit the spread.

Any mask wearing limits the spread.

So wearing in some buildings but not others limits the spread

and wearing some of the time but not others limits the spread.

So these rules reduce the spread of covid

What is difficult to understand?

If the rules were that everyone with an even number of letters in their surname had to wear a mask, - that would also limit the spread

Because half of people would be wearing masks.

It would not be "fair" - but rules do not need to be fair or consistent to the people who they affect to limit the spread!

Honestly, the virus is not remotely concerning itself about fair and consistent!

It's because the bar staff will be serving dozens of customers in a shift and it will reduce their risk of catching it.

I do agree a lot of the rules make no sense though.

@54321nought

Why don't people understand this - it is perfectly straight forward. Wearing a mask limits the spread. Wearing a mask some of the time limits the spread.

the rules don't have to be uniform to limit the spread.

Any mask wearing limits the spread.

So wearing in some buildings but not others limits the spread

and wearing some of the time but not others limits the spread.

So these rules reduce the spread of covid

What is difficult to understand?

Most posters on mn cant resist a swipe at nicola sturgeon. Thats all it is.

@DoucheCanoe

If you're sitting down vulnerable or anxious people can position themselves facing away.

If you're stood at the bar drinking vulnerable or anxious people can keep their distance.

Vulnerable or anxious people can't avoid everyone walking around indoors.

Afraid an airborne virus doesn't work like that and if ventilation is rubbish then people would get it regardless due to air build up. You don't catch it walking past people unless they cough in your face.

The rules have been riddled with inconsistencies since day 1.
People who work in Sales, retail, hairdressing, garden centres and billion and one other things dealing face to face with the public have been back at work for ages. I work in a huge office with more than 2m between desks and no members of the public, but not allowed back. Because its an office. And therefore clearly attractive to the virus. Unlike , Oh, I dunno, a bar, a restaurant, a night club….

I have now downloaded a mask exemption card from NHS Scotland. (No evidence required) which just shows what a joke it all is.

I'm aware how it works @Scottishskifun, the point is masks minimise risk.

Moving around and encountering more people indoors without a mask raises the risks.

If I see people walking around without masks on I tend to give them space for both our benefits.

@54321nought in well ventilated areas it reduces doesn't limit especially with delta as the small particles still escape the masks and easy build up in the air without reasonable ventilation.
So if your sat in a restaurant/pub/cafe everyone with their masks off eating and drinking then it's already building up in the air unless windows are open etc. Putting a mask on to walk in or walk to a toilet isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to reduce the air build in a space where masks aren't worn 99% of the time. That's the point really.

With the original variant the benefit of masks was borderline but with the new variant it still escapes them unless a FFP2/FFP3. Nevermind the fact that about 85-90% of people either fail to wear them properly or change them regularly enough/follow correct handling and washing procedures so they become a bit useless! They only have a benefit if worn properly and with social distancing.

@dementedma

The rules have been riddled with inconsistencies since day 1. People who work in Sales, retail, hairdressing, garden centres and billion and one other things dealing face to face with the public have been back at work for ages. I work in a huge office with more than 2m between desks and no members of the public, but not allowed back. Because its an office. And therefore clearly attractive to the virus. Unlike , Oh, I dunno, a bar, a restaurant, a night club….

I have now downloaded a mask exemption card from NHS Scotland. (No evidence required) which just shows what a joke it all is.

so what? any mask wearing at all reduces numbers of cases. What is the problem people have with "inconsistencies"? That just points to you not understanding how this works

@DoucheCanoe

I'm aware how it works *@Scottishskifun*, the point is masks minimise risk.

Moving around and encountering more people indoors without a mask raises the risks.

If I see people walking around without masks on I tend to give them space for both our benefits.

In a cafe/pub/restaurant they don't though given 99% of the time people are not wearing them! You have air build up.

By all means wear one if it makes you feel better or more comfortable but unless you are stopping and having a close face to face conversation on the way to the toilet with a stranger then actually that time between walking from your table to go to the loo makes no difference if the ventilation is rubbish.

It's why the guidelines state to put CO2 monitors in places for air quality and build up especially with the new variant.

Either way, it seems that no government can do right for getting it wrong.

Some are happy with them, others aren't.

It's just trial and error everywhere surely?

There is absolutely fuck all chance that wearing a mask to sit next to people at a wedding service limits the spread, when you then have an unmasked drunken ceilidh with those exact same people an hour later.

Just like wearing a mask for two minutes waiting to order your drink at the bar, then standing at the bar for thirty minutes afterwards without a mask drinking that drink, is not really going to do much for the bar staff.

Just like walking from your table to the bar while wearing a mask won’t do much for ‘vulnerable and anxious’ people sat near you, when you can then walk back from the bar to your table without a mask.

It’s not about swiping at Sturgeon, it’s that these rules are now increasingly disproportionate and pointless.

@54321nought the latest studies show they only reduce liklihood of catching it if worn correctly and social distancing maintained with the new variant.

The point that many are annoyed about is that keeping it in law when there is no risk based justification to do so as in cafes/restaurants/pubs due to the nature of having them off the majority of time your there for a visit.

They do make sense on poorly ventilated small spaces such as public transport.
The only masks which ensures 100% no spread or catch risk is a FFP2 or above.

It’s not about swiping at Sturgeon, it’s that these rules are now increasingly disproportionate and pointless

But it turns into that.
I still do t get why people think England, Wales or NI have any clearer guidance - and specifically why they think there is anything resembling enforcement when signs state clear expectations of customers/travellers.

Don't wear a mask. Simples. Completely pointless

You might want to join us on the Scotsnet threads if you want to moan further

@wasthataburp

It's fucking ridiculous. I've just been on a weekend away in Edinburgh and didn't wear a mask once. It's absolutely insane these rules

Then you are a twat who thinks your own comfort is more important than the law of the country you are visiting. How arrogant.

The inconsistencies are what's done me. If the rules made absolute sense I think more people would have just got on with sticking to them but they seem made up

I'm in England but first Saturday when beer gardens reopened we went to a local pub and were told we had to wait 5-10 minuets for a table. The landlord told us to wear a mask while we waited - outside, in the car park, with my friend I would be sitting with and socially distanced from the only 2 other people waiting. We questioned why we had to wear masks outside and were told 'its the rules'

Dh was at the football today, said there were constant tannoy announcements to remind folk to wear a mask.

Visited a pub and everyone had masks on when moving about.

on the other hand, I visited a&e in January and was treated by a consultant who wore his mask under his nose....

It's fucking ridiculous. I've just been on a weekend away in Edinburgh and didn't wear a mask once. It's absolutely insane these rules

Have you any idea how arrogant that sounds?

@LagunaBubbles

It's fucking ridiculous. I've just been on a weekend away in Edinburgh and didn't wear a mask once. It's absolutely insane these rules

Have you any idea how arrogant that sounds?

I agree, arrogance personified.

I cant imagine how this attitude makes a CEV person feel, or if your child is vulnerable.

@SamW98

The inconsistencies are what's done me. If the rules made absolute sense I think more people would have just got on with sticking to them but they seem made up

I'm in England but first Saturday when beer gardens reopened we went to a local pub and were told we had to wait 5-10 minuets for a table. The landlord told us to wear a mask while we waited - outside, in the car park, with my friend I would be sitting with and socially distanced from the only 2 other people waiting. We questioned why we had to wear masks outside and were told 'its the rules'

Why o why o why are people so hung up on wanting "consistancy"??? What difference does it make? Masks limit spread. Wearing masks a certain percentage of the time limits the spread. SAGE recommend how and when masks should be worn to acheive that percentage.

i honestly don't see why people get confused about this - it just shows a massive failure of mathematical understanding, and I just don't understand where this is coming from.

Surely the population as a whole can grasp this concept???

Maybe they mostly can, maybe its just the ones who can't that keep complaining about "inconsistency"

@54321nought it's not really a failing of mathematical understanding to know that a mask outside when distanced from others is doing nothing other than making someone hot and bothered. There is sufficient ventilation in the outside environment......

People want logic based on risk before being forced to put on something which is difficult for some and uncomfortable that's not too difficult to understand is it?

Outside and spaced extremely low risk a mask is pretty pointless.
Indoors if 99% of time people have masks off then putting one on to go to the toilet = pointless as you've already been sat in the environment without anything.
Indoors in a warehouse for instance with a ventilation system again very low risk etc etc.

Again masks only limit a percentage of spread via large droplets and not aerosol spread and you also stated it yourself.... If worn properly.....

Next time your out count how many people you see put them on or take them off incorrectly, have shoved them under their chin, have huge gaps as they are too big and they haven't knotted the elastic, have their nose sticking out, pull them down whilst doing something, shove into a pocket or bag and don't sanitise their hands....... Then the mathematics becomes the vast majority doesn't wear or use them properly and as such they become a visual safety blanket rather than a protective PPE item.