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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I being unreasonable for wanting to tell you about being Caucasian?

115 replies

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 18:47

Inspired by another thread I just responded to, I thought I would start this one.

So, do you think I'm being unreasonable for wanting to tell you about what it means to be Caucasian?

The reason I want to tell you about it is because when most people hear the term 'Caucasian' their thoughts most often go to a dark place. White supremacy. Racism. But reality is, Caucasians are not "white". "White" being someone of, say, Germanic, Scandinavian or Anglo-Saxon heritage. For those that might know this, there is a rather large region in Central Asia called the Caucasus. It consists of countries like Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan, but also lots of regions in what we know as Russia. People that originate from the Caucasus - such as myself - we are called Caucasians. The reason why I want to tell people about the Caucasus and Caucasian people is because I feel like our name is being misused so much, and almost always in negative contexts. I shouldn't have to be worried about offending someone by telling them I'm Caucasian. Just because, in their mind, a Caucasian must be a white supremacist.

I really hope that even one person might read this thread might think twice about their reaction next time they meet someone that tells them they are Caucasian. Because some of us genuinely are Caucasians, and very proud of our ancient heritage, our culture and our history. We do not want to be associated with racism, superiority of any kind, or anything else that's negative and so far away from us / who we are.

Thank you for reading...

OP posts:
Lovinghannah · 12/08/2021 18:53

I'm confused. Aren't people from Georgia, Azerbaijan also white?

Lovinghannah · 12/08/2021 18:57

Also I would never associate the term Caucasian with white supremacy.

Finfintytint · 12/08/2021 18:57

I’ve had a very quick Google and it appears the term is now an obsolete racial classification, so you are not wrong.

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 18:58

@Lovinghannah

I'm confused. Aren't people from Georgia, Azerbaijan also white?
I can't answer that, because 'white' is not exactly clearly defined anywhere nor by anyone. All I can say that those that associate Caucasianess with pale skin, blue eyes and blonde hair are in the wrong. Most Caucasians do not possess these qualities.
OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 12/08/2021 18:58

I don’t mind you talking about your heritage and culture as a Caucasian (white) person. People often forget that there are many ethnicities within each of the races. I am curious why you think white people are only those from Northern Europe and Scandinavia? White people ethnic homelands cover all Europe, Russia, the Middle East and N. Africa. Not all white people are pale skinned, some are brown just like we Asians range from very pale to darkest brown.

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 18:59

@Lovinghannah

Also I would never associate the term Caucasian with white supremacy.
That's good to hear. Sadly, it's not my personal experience with most people...
OP posts:
Stakhanovite · 12/08/2021 19:00

I can see how the word "Aryan" might have the connotations mentioned by the OP, but Caucasian has always felt fairly neutral to me.

54321nought · 12/08/2021 19:01

I am also very confused when I hear people use the term "Caucasian" to mean northern Europeans - we are not Caucasians!

But the phrase "Anglo-Saxon" is a bit weird too, the "Anglo -Saxons" were retired soldiers who had turned mercenary after serving 25 years in the Roman army, they were not in any way ethnically homogenous, many of them were North African, Mediterranean, etc

Obviouspretzel · 12/08/2021 19:02

Are those people not in the UK? Because I have literally never heard of this association.

Stompythedinosaur · 12/08/2021 19:03

I didn't think we used the term Caucasian anymore? It dates back to the racial analysis of the 1700s (where the other classifications were "negroid" and "mongaloid") so is pretty offensive on that basis, quite apart from the total inaccuracy.

lokomojo · 12/08/2021 19:04

@54321nought
www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zxsbcdm/articles/zq2m6sg

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:04

@PlanDeRaccordement

I don’t mind you talking about your heritage and culture as a Caucasian (white) person. People often forget that there are many ethnicities within each of the races. I am curious why you think white people are only those from Northern Europe and Scandinavia? White people ethnic homelands cover all Europe, Russia, the Middle East and N. Africa. Not all white people are pale skinned, some are brown just like we Asians range from very pale to darkest brown.
See, that's my whole point. Caucasian is not about colour - as someone kindly mentioned, it's a racial classification. But people misuse the term to describe people of, say, Germanic or Scandinavian heritage. It's incorrect as these people are not Caucasians. As they are not from Caucasus.

And I never said white couldn't be anything other than Germanic and Scandinavian, I just mentioned those as examples =)

OP posts:
Siameasy · 12/08/2021 19:05

I have never understood why white Europeans are called “Caucasian” either as I also think of the Caucasus.
Whether people from that region are “white” or not is subjective since there is no such thing as “white” from a scientific perspective. Who is “white” has varied throughout history.
At one point, from a US standpoint, I understand that Italians were not considered “white”.

Rumplestrumpet · 12/08/2021 19:06

Caucasian is usually used as an American term to mean white person of any heritage, I've only ever heard it in TV and movies.
You're correct that it's original meaning is referring to people of the Caucasus, but I think due to growing presence of American culture it's not used for that much any more in every day parlance.

That's said, I have never heard it associated with white supremacists.

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:06

@Stakhanovite

I can see how the word "Aryan" might have the connotations mentioned by the OP, but Caucasian has always felt fairly neutral to me.
Speaking of which, the term Aryan is also used incorrectly. Again, towards people that are anything but Aryan...
OP posts:
BlackLambAndGreyFalcon · 12/08/2021 19:06

OP have you read "let our fame be great" by Oliver Bullough? It's part travelogue, part history and it's billed as "the extraordinary untold story of the inhabitants of the Caucasus and their unbreakable spirit". It's very approachable and has lots of history that has just been forgotten today in the west.

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:07

@Stompythedinosaur

I didn't think we used the term Caucasian anymore? It dates back to the racial analysis of the 1700s (where the other classifications were "negroid" and "mongaloid") so is pretty offensive on that basis, quite apart from the total inaccuracy.
So what should those of us from the Caucasus call ourselves if not Caucasians?
OP posts:
DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:08

@Obviouspretzel

Are those people not in the UK? Because I have literally never heard of this association.
I have no idea, I don't live in the UK...
OP posts:
Lovinghannah · 12/08/2021 19:08

I've only ever seen the term on forms asking for ethnic identity, but that was probably years ago now.
Also what you said about the Caucasus is interesting, thanks!

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:09

@Siameasy

I have never understood why white Europeans are called “Caucasian” either as I also think of the Caucasus. Whether people from that region are “white” or not is subjective since there is no such thing as “white” from a scientific perspective. Who is “white” has varied throughout history. At one point, from a US standpoint, I understand that Italians were not considered “white”.
Completely agree with you...
OP posts:
DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:10

@BlackLambAndGreyFalcon

OP have you read "let our fame be great" by Oliver Bullough? It's part travelogue, part history and it's billed as "the extraordinary untold story of the inhabitants of the Caucasus and their unbreakable spirit". It's very approachable and has lots of history that has just been forgotten today in the west.
I haven't, no. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely see if I can find the book!
OP posts:
DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:10

@Lovinghannah

I've only ever seen the term on forms asking for ethnic identity, but that was probably years ago now. Also what you said about the Caucasus is interesting, thanks!
You're very welcome!
OP posts:
FrankButchersDickieBow · 12/08/2021 19:11

Maybe I am ingnorant, but I have never associated it as white supremacy language.

I'll admit, I thought it just meant white and as a pp said, I've only really heard it on cop/police shows

'Caucasian male, escaping on foot etc.

I will now look into this. Thanks OP.

DelphineMarineaux · 12/08/2021 19:13

@FrankButchersDickieBow

Maybe I am ingnorant, but I have never associated it as white supremacy language.

I'll admit, I thought it just meant white and as a pp said, I've only really heard it on cop/police shows

'Caucasian male, escaping on foot etc.

I will now look into this. Thanks OP.

I'm glad to hear so may of you don't associate Caucasian with white supremacy. Makes me very happy =)

And you're very welcome, I'm just happy to spread a bit of awareness of who Caucasians really are =)

OP posts:
MontysMinions · 12/08/2021 19:21

Really interesting thread OP.

I had only every heard the term 'Caucasian' to refer to white people and always considered it to be racist as I know it's history is often used to frame POC negatively.

I didn't realise there was a region from which 'Caucasians' are from and it can have nothing to do with race in this instance.

I shall now go and google!!