Is my dad being unreasonable/hurtful

[onlychildhamster]

Looking for a handhold here. I am 28 years old and I was talking to my dad today about property prices in London and the UK (I own a 2 bed flat in London that I bought in 2019 and I was saying I am overpaying my mortgage every month). Note I own the 400k property he is talking about.

This is what he said. I have copy and pasted his exact words, and removed the name of our home country/childhood home names for privacy reasons. These are his exact words, this isn't a troll or a stealth boast. I would say that my parents are wealthy but definitely not ultra high net worth individuals or celebrities or anything in that category.

'anyway all these $$$ is very very insignificant. GBP400K property even if it should appreciate to GBP800K is really not worth bothering about. In the bigger scheme of things the next 30 years, being able to earn GBP10m is what the top 30% of magic circle graduates will be able to achieve esp with this rise in inflation.

the fresh graduates salary will be above GBP100K and most will hit GBP500K after 10 - 15 years. alas for the bottom 50%, it will be tough.property in prime location will be above GBP5m. like what is happening in insert home country now.in 1988, 'parents' first property' cost $550K, 7 years later, sold for $1.7m, today it should be worth $3.5m. what this does not make the owner of a terrace house rich unless he migrate and retire in 'neighbouring country'.property price rise is not the means to secure retirement.being able to secure a professional career with credible wages is the way to growing one's wealth.'

AIBU to feel really sad when he talks this way. If I am honest, it makes me feel like crying. Needless to say DH and I don't earn that kind of cash, we don't have the best jobs though we did go to good universities. We do earn enough for a comfortable life though we probably do need to earn more if we want to upgrade to a 3 bed flat (my next financial goal) or provide well for our future child. I am fine with that, I know it's important to be financially secure. I just feel like a failure when he talks like that, I usually stop responding and often go NC for long periods of time. If I am totally honest, though I miss my home country, I don't often go back more than once a year because it means conversations like this 24/7. When DH and I do go back, we prefer to pay for a hotel just to avoid conversations like this. DH is a native Londoner btw and he isn't really used to this kind of family dynamic. Tbh my dad has always been like this but I think I was accustomed to it when I was younger but since I moved abroad for university and got married, my tolerance level is probably much lower than it used to be.

AIBU for thinking that what my dad says is very hurtful? How should I deal with it? Thanks all. Maybe he thinks it's encouragement but it doesn't feel that way!

Rich people problems.

@Sundancerintherain what about when he sends me a message asking if I have gotten a new job with a 'big company'. Or what certificates am I getting to secure that 500k salary?????

That your father thinks you are a failure is the subject here. He has picked money as a way to run you down, but it could have been anything: that you are not amusing (my father’s favourite), that you don’t have four sons, that you didn’t marry royalty, that you do your own cleaning, parenting, driving etc. The possibilities are endless. If you won the euromillions tomorrow, he would find a way to let you know that you disappoint him.
Do some research on toxic parents and learn to deal with it from a stronger position. Your father is not going to change, you need better strategies so you don’t feel so wretched about it.

[quote onlychildhamster]@2bazookas he isn't from the UK though! He has lived in America so it's not like he isn't worldly and English is his first language. So perfectly capable of looking up stats.

I don't really want to disclose my home country but it is quite wealthy, more on par with London than most parts of the UK. Cost of living is quite similar. It's a big city and quite unequal.[/quote]
Mental illnesses, and mental decline related to old age, can affect anyone, wherever they live, wherever they've been, whatever languages they speak.

There are plenty of worldly native Brits of his age group, speaking fluent English , whose mental capacity goes over the cliff in later life and spend the rest of it unable to manage their own finances, let alone advise their children.

@2bazookas is that a possibility at 58? My dad is 58 this year. Isn't that a little too young for decline of mental capacity? I am not sure about other mental illnesses.

How did I guess you were a lawyer?! It has been widely reported in the legal press that a very small number of US firms with offices in London are offering newly qualified solicitor salaries of >£100k, in fact there has been something of a nuclear arms race for NQ salaries at the top of the legal profession this year. It’s a short term bubble, nothing more, and salaries will even out over the next few years when the current very aggressive recruitment market has gone back to normal. I’m in a regional firm and salaries aren’t anything like that. What’s more, if you are taking an NQ position in those US firms you are selling your soul in exchange for the cash. You can expect to work until midnight every single night - and often later - have weekends and holidays cancelled and generally be at the beck and call of the clients and partners 24/7 for the duration. It doesn’t matter how nice your flat is if you never see it. Billing targets are at 1800 hours annually or more which is at least 8-10 hours of chargeable time EVERY DAY as well as non-chargeable stuff.

As for what else your dad is saying, it’s simply his opinion, isn’t it? Who says you can’t be happy on less than £10m income (I’m assuming he’s talking over a lifetime; not even top equity are earning £10m a year). You were happy on your salary and with your property until he told you you shouldn’t be. It doesn’t matter what he thinks. What do you want?

I don't think this is an indication of him being unwell - more like he's just the sort of twat Dad like I had

In his mind my siblings and I were worthless if we weren't super high earners

It was just another form of abuse - setting ludicrously unreachable standards to get love and validation

in case no one tells you this (and I didn't learn this until I was well over 30 with 5 years of therapy) - You're AMAZING, you have a job and a flat you are paying for yourself in one of the most expensive cities in the world

Well done you

[quote onlychildhamster]@Sundancerintherain what about when he sends me a message asking if I have gotten a new job with a 'big company'. Or what certificates am I getting to secure that 500k salary?????[/quote]
HK or Singapore if I had to guess
I have friends from both those places and it doesn’t matter what they do, some lady their mum plays mahjong with will have a more successful child.
But they may well be bragging about how well you are doing to other people while telling you you are a failure

Sounds like my Chinese FIL. He's a narcssist and uses nobey to control his kids and extended family. He has a very high net worth and always putting kids down and basically making out that they will never be a successful as him. Most of them are successful in their own right with good educations and careers. I think he prefers them to rely on his for money as it gives him control. Could that be what's going on here? Does he find it difficult to empathise with others? Do you think he realises he's hurting your feelings?

*money... excuses typos

[quote onlychildhamster]@suspiria777 that my dad thinks I am a total failure. It's not that he thinks I am bad at money, he thinks that I am poverty stricken![/quote]
Not sure how he could think this .....you must earn decent money to own that property etcetc
Sorry but he sounds like a moron to me....ignore and tell him you are happy with what you have ...

@User4748294496 I didn't practice law in the end as I didn't enjoy it. i went into finance instead. Its not front office, so the hours are quite regular. I would like to increase my salary but at the same time, I generally can manage. I want to increase my salary mainly because I want to start a family one day and would like the extra disposable income

My parents had that kind of lifestyle when they were my age and guess they expect me to be the same. My mum was working until 12 midnight or even 3 am when I was 1 month old, I was cared for by my grandmother (and sent to the daycare centre once my sister was born). As a toddler, i only really saw my parents at weekends, i would communicate with my mum during the week by writing to her on Post It notes. I tried to wait up for her, but usually dozed off in my grandmother's bed.

I remember sitting in the car outside my mum's office as a primary school kid, willing for her office light to switch off. I was often in the car for over an hour and would up eating dinner everyday at 10 pm. I don't particularly want this kind of life if I am totally honest. I don't mind working till 9 pm now but not when I have a child.

I think my dad's point was not 'whether I am happy' but that he thinks I am setting up for financial disaster if I don't earn those sums! So he is treating me like a disaster.

@TedMullins

your dad is talking such utter bollocks it’s hilarious. Graduate salaries are nowhere near £100k and definitely won’t be in the next 50 years. If you check the calculator on the institute for fiscal studies’ website you’ll find that if you earn 45k you’re earning more than 84% of the population. Maybe if your dad’s so into numbers tell him to go on the website and put in some “poverty” wages for himself

This!

Reply and say 'Dad, someone must have hacked your email as I've just had a message with a load of corporate speak nonsense that looks like it's been copied from an American graduate recruitment site. Change your passwords now!'

@Hoppinggreen you are right about the place, its obvious haha.

But most of my friends don't have parents like that. their parents expect them to go to university and get a job and get married and buy their property on a much tighter timeline than their Western counterparts. But it doesn't sound unreasonable and it doesn't sound hugely dissimilar from what middle class Brits expect of their children.

When I was growing up, my friends were very intimidated by my father and found him intense and strict!

@Cuddlemuffin I have never asked my dad for money since I graduated from university. Its funny cos he raised me to not expect a penny from inheritance.

I haven't really observed many of his interactions with others outside of family. Its weird but my parents have a limited social circle. He is the head of the household, my mum and sister listen to him. Within the extended family, my cousins fawn on his every word and call him endlessly to ask for 'financial advice' as he is seen to be a good businessman. My aunts hero worship him cos he is seen to be a committed husband/father and a wealthy man. He has a business partner who is a man of few words and happy to let him get on with things. So in a way, my dad's set up means that he doesn't really need to worry about hurting people's feelings.

My dad's take on this is that I should feel so lucky to get his free advice that my cousins beg him for.

Honestly, your dad is an idiot. Sorry, but he is literally talking out of his arse.

If I were you, I’d be upset that I’d discovered my dad didn’t know everything about everything like it felt he did as a kid.

What's a magic circle graduate? Like a magician?!

@LJAKS www.thelawyerportal.com/free-guides/law-firms/magic-circle-law-firms/ these are the top 5 law firms. As a PP mentioned, they can pay in excess of 100k ..

My dad was also talking about 'graduate jobs' in Investment banks and big tech- Amazon/Facebook/google which apparently pay these huge salaries too. well all i can say is DH works for an investment bank but earns nothing like that. My dad also puts my DH down and says his role is very mediocre. Meh.

Ah ok. My uncle is in the magic circle (magician kind) and I got excited 🤪🥴

OP, the only way to deal with that, apart from going complete no contact, is to put your dad back to his box, i.e. Explain/prove to him that he is talking bullshit. Graduates are not earning 100k with the exception of a tiny number of hedge funds and only those graduates who are extremely talented quants. Tier 1 investment grads earn a fraction of that. 500k salary after is only possible in managing directors/senior partner in legal firm roles. We are talking about very few people who have no work/life balance of any kind.
Your dad got his 'knowledge' from non-reputable sources. My guess would be silly inspirational posts on LinkedIn. He has no idea what he is talking about

Not sure I really understand but to me he is saying you can sell at some magical future date buy cheaper and try and live off the difference but the money won’t last

Surely that’s why we all lay into a pension scheme, so actually a good scheme will provide income required to live on when retired and if you want to sell and move somewhere cheaper then that’s more cash in the bank

I think people are misinterpreting what the father is saying here—he’s taking about legal careers and earnings, saying the magic circle BQ salary is 100k (and actually a most of the US firms are well over that) so he’s actually correct on those facts.

But really that’s irrelevant—you either just need to let your eyes glass over when he starts, or tell him you’re happy with your financial situation.

It sounds like he has unresolved issues over the fact your decided not to pursue a legal career, is that right?

@Chloemol I think that it was because I once said that unlike in my home country, londoners who own property have the option to move to other parts of the country which can be very helpful to supplement one's pension. That was in response to him saying i need to be a millionaire to retire.

He’s definitely coming across a jerk but it’s probably all coming from a good place of wanting you to have a comfortable life. I think it’s easy to forget that for older generations and people in most countries there is no support structure there if things don’t work out for you financially. So he worries about your future comfort (unnecessarily)

@Flowers500 More like he has unresolved issues that I am not earning big bucks. When i decided to go to law school, he used to say- yes you should become a lawyer and then in later life you can switch to banking.