A level grades

[DolphinFC]

If feel that value of an A grade ar A level has been reduced dramatically. I feel truly sorry for those very bright, hard-working students who would've got an A grade no matter what. Their deserved A grade is now lost in a pile of undeserved A grades.

@TheReluctantPhoenix that is how I remember it when I was at school, the straight A students really stood out. Bit like Firsts at University, only a handful ever got them

@Bryonyshcmyony

How on earth do you know that?!

Jeez, have you ever spent time with a load of teenagers this age?! The only way they’re worthy of As is if an A is not worthy of discerning the best of the cohort. If the assessment is so easy that half of those sitting can ace it, it’s a useless assessment.

If a whole class of 7 year olds all get 19 out of 20 on a spelling test, it suggests the words were pretty easy, not that all those 7 year olds are exceptional with literacy.

The Telegraph is now mooting Zahawi as a replacement for Gavin.

Problem is @NotBadConsidering, how do you go back from this. You can't suddenly go back to how it was in the 80s when only a small percentage got As. I am sure teaching methods have improved (pretty dire in my Primary School in the 70s), so would explain some increase, but not the total increase in percentage of A grades.

I assume we will either see the emergence of A** grades or additional requirements/tests from Universities

I wonder if Gavin will leave as soon as GCSE results are out

I assume we will either see the emergence of A grades or additional requirements/tests from Universities

I agree. There will have to be now a different way to determine suitability to study certain courses, as As/A*s at A level won’t be discerning enough between applicants.

@ineedaholidaynow

I wonder if Gavin will leave as soon as GCSE results are out

I wonder how GCSE results will look this year?

@SofiaMichelle they don't seem to have mentioned the GCSE results yet. The news that there had been grade inflation in A-levels was mentioned before the results came out, as universities were discussing it, but I haven't seen anything about GCSEs. Will have to wait until tomorrow

Picking up on the point about these students not being able to cope with their courses- not necessarily. 2 years ago, DD1 got BCCB in her A levels. She was disappointed, but got into her chosen uni anyway. Now going into her third year, she is in with a realistic shot at a First. She has worked, matured, addressed some mental health issues and done really well. 18 year olds have a lot of growing up still to do.

@Potatoy

Their deserved A grade is now lost in a pile of undeserved A grades. so rude. You have no idea if any of those grades were undeserved. These are people you're talking about not figures.

It's not possible that nearly 50% of students deserve an A/A*. In university, with coursework, do we see everyone getting firsts? No, it doesn't happen.

Before anyone says I'm bitter, I say my alevels in 2019 and got into a top university, top ten if I was showing off.

The thing that annoys me is the "they've had a hard year, they all deserve A*s". Well, no they don't. I was pregnant and had a baby through GCSE, y12 and y13. I still say my exams and nobody handed me an A for it.

Jeez, have you ever spent time with a load of teenagers this age?! The only way they’re worthy of As is if an A is not worthy of discerning the best of the cohort. If the assessment is so easy that half of those sitting can ace it, it’s a useless assessment. If a whole class of 7 year olds all get 19 out of 20 on a spelling test, it suggests the words were pretty easy, not that all those 7 year olds are exceptional with literacy.

Completely agree @NotBadConsidering. Even taking out these two years of pandemic grades, grade inflation was starting to creep up anyway so either exam boards have to redesign their tests or change the way the grading works.

I know the exam boards change the grade boundaries for exams every year depending on the difficulty of the test so 85/100 in 2016 would get you an A but 80/100 would get you an A in 2017 as the test was harder (for example). However this doesn’t change the problem of inflation. Inflation is natural because as students work harder and teaching and social mobility and society improves, more students will make each grade boundary, BUT this doesn’t solve the problem of the need to separate the top elite students from the rest.

I think exam boards would be better off marking on a grading distribution curve. So only the top 10% of scorers each year got an A (for example). I wonder why they don’t do this? There must be some reason. In America this type of curve grading is much more popular as it gives an indication of the student relative to the rest of the population so you always know who the highest achievers are.

I think thats the different viewpoints people are arguing here. Grade allocation by comparing the students grade relative the rest of the student population vs grade allocation by each student simply reaching a minimum grade boundary to achieve that grade.

Of course I may be completely wrong with everything I’ve said above in which case feel free to correct me!

@Morgoth I thought that A* were something like the top 2% of students in normal years? I like your idea, but wouldn't it have to subject to a minimum score of x% otherwise you could be giving top grades to people who hadn't scored that highly?

[quote dollybird]**@Morgoth* I thought that A were something like the top 2% of students in normal years? I like your idea, but wouldn't it have to subject to a minimum score of x% otherwise you could be giving top grades to people who hadn't scored that highly?[/quote]
So grading on a curve means that you grade students relative to the rest of the population so there wouldn’t be a minimum grade boundary for each grade per se. The top 10% of scores (whatever they may be) get an A, the next 10% of scores a B, the next 10% a C and so on… (just examples). That way, every year you know every student who achieved an A grade is in the top 10% of scorers. Lots of countries grade this way based on distribution curves but in the U.K. we tend to award grades based on boundaries which leads to inflation problems.

The score itself is irrelevant. It’s the score relative to the rest of the cohort that’s the determining factor. Ranking essentially.

Before anyone says I'm bitter, I say my alevels in 2019 and got into a top university, top ten if I was showing off

Well done you. Why on earth are you judging others for also having a hard time? Having a baby is not exactly living in a global pandemic

Do we use bell curves now? I thought grade boundaries replaced them. My mum explained a bell curve to me as the majority of pupils scoring the middle grade for A Levels in the 1960s/70s - so, for example, 40% would get a C, 20% would get Bs and Ds and 10% would get As and Es. Whereas from around the 80s, we went to grade boundaries instead. But that could be 100% total nonsense, I really have no idea! I just nodded along (she is a total grade inflation disciple).

I've lost track of the private/state debate now; I went out for too long. I still don't think anything deliberately unfair has been done by teachers but I do think there is inherent unfairness involved.

I am sure bell curve was used when I sat my A-levels in the 80s. I remember my first day at 6th form, and being told by the HT in assembly, that 10% of us would fail and if we didn’t want to be in that 10% to start working now

Yeah it’s grade boundaries now I believe which has replaced the bell curve. However it may have a resurgence of current grading is not working for employers and universities to differentiate between the quite good, the very good and the absolute best.

if*

Wouldn’t it be better to have 90% + as an A*, 80%+ as an A etc?
Which isn’t to imply that anyone who got those grades this year was arbitrarily gifted them. Grades were given based on moderated teacher assessment according to the current system.
In general, however, if you get 70% then you haven’t been able to recall 30% of the course content in an exam environment. Should you then get an A* just because your 70% is in that top 10%, along with a small number of people whose marks demonstrate a more in depth knowledge of the curriculum?

@Bryonyshcmyony

Before anyone says I'm bitter, I say my alevels in 2019 and got into a top university, top ten if I was showing off

Well done you. Why on earth are you judging others for also having a hard time? Having a baby is not exactly living in a global pandemic

Bit harsh. She did very well. I would have found it a real challenge to do O levels and A levels with a baby,

More distracting than working from home for a bit, in a year where everyone else is doing the same. Even if some of them were from "wealthy homes" and had teachers being pressurised into giving them higher grades.

and had teachers being pressurised into giving them higher grades

You really don't mind insulting private school teachers, do you?

It seems there is a bit of an issue with the independent system really, though probably more in some places than others, I'd guess.

I imagine arguing for special cases taken to a fine art, as in the article linked about special cases for more time in exams. I can entirely see how that would happen and how it could be argued for, with great compassion and case, on a case by case basis.

If you haven’t engaged with the work then no amount of extra time is going to compensate for that. You could give me 24 hours to do a physics paper and I’d still get a U, for example

There's no issue with it.

They've always had loads more As and A*s than the state sector

Why do you think people use them

Because their kids need spoon feeding (in some cases) or their kids are "quirky" and will get special treatment? lots of reasons.

Nice grounds

Trying to encourage the kids to feel entitled in some way

Cachet of one of the big schools

Getting A grades handed to you in a pandemic is a new one