A level grades

[DolphinFC]

If feel that value of an A grade ar A level has been reduced dramatically. I feel truly sorry for those very bright, hard-working students who would've got an A grade no matter what. Their deserved A grade is now lost in a pile of undeserved A grades.

All schools could be moderated. I’m sure there weren’t backhanders paid to the exam boards by private schools

@blameitonthecaffeine I don't work in the private sector but I do know that the ones in my authority did not attend the exam board in-service looking at how the grading should be done. They did not take part in the authority wide moderation and were not subject to the historical grade procedure which checked for anomalous results (not just based on last year either but over the last 5 years).
Perhaps in your area it was different.

I do think that pupils who attended the private schools were much less disadvantaged by lack of technology/lack of good (or any) internet and were much more likely to have a quiet study area and not be trying to do online lessons at the kitchen table with their 3 year old sibling screaming in the background, their 9 year old sibling sitting next to them also trying to do online learning and and internet that couldn't cope with 3 people all doing online stuff at once.

I think that many people would be surprised that 16 year olds were trying to do exam level work with nothing more than a smart phone and bad internet.
By the last lockdown most kids had a chromebook, but it was wholly inappropriate for a number of the courses they were doing (like mine, where specialist software was required but can't be installed on a chromebook...)

@Carycy

It’s the teachers or whoever it is that awarded the grades Willy nilly. They should be ashamed of themselves for not being honest.

If you have any evidence that a teacher has been unprofessional and unethical and given a student a fake grade then go report it to Ofsted. But as I suspect, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Read the several accounts on here from teachers on how the grading was done. Several rounds of checks and peer-reviewed checks and blind checks and they had to provide evidence to back up every single grade awarded as the awarding bodies did randomised checks for anomalies or disparities.

We haven’t so far heard of one awarding body disputing a grade a teacher has given in the news - despite probably every right wing press outlet pulling their hair out desperately trying to find one to push their anti-teacher, anti-education, anti-intellectualism, anti-young people narrative.

Consider a cohort of 18 year old school leavers, whether that’s a group someone might teach, or the friends of posters’ DDs or DSs here. Think of all those 18 year olds you know. Now consider do you really think that half of them are suitable for highly academic university courses, even if their grades might make them eligible? Of course they aren’t.

We all like to think the best of our own kids, about how amazing and deserving they are, but think about all the other 18 year olds out there. Many of them are mediocre. Some of them are idiots. Even though they’ve had it tough, and even if they’re lovely. And guaranteed some idiots got grades that make them eligible for courses for which they are in no way suitable. Clearly this is a failure.

Everyone is bound to hear a story from their own kids or kids they teach that Average Joe who’s always been a bit of a slacker and doesn’t seem to be the sharpest tool in the box has somehow got A/A*s. Are you truly honestly not going to raise an eyebrow at that at least?

I see an awful lot of posters bringing medical degrees into this. I didn't live with a med student, but I did share a flat with a vet student many years ago, who was on a very challenging course.

Her degree was four solid years of education. IIRC, 2-3 years were classroom based. The final year was all practical. The year before that may have been practical too. And yes, to pass her course and be awarded a veterinary degree, she needed to pass a practical exam during the last year, or she failed the whole four years.

But having a year or two of hands-on practice where you apply all of your developed in-class knowledge to a real world situation, and then performing what you've learned during that practical year in a practical exam, is not the same as cramming some facts about animal biology at age 17, and then spitting out those facts within some multiple choice answers, a few short answers, or maybe a slightly longer-form essay. One experience not equals the other.

Stop panicking about these A grades (and please leave our kids who didn't earn As alone too...). You're probably not going to get a doctor someday who was babied through uni but doesn't really understand human anatomy. You might get a doctor who would otherwise have been shut out of their calling under the old system, but who was diligent during their classroom and then practical training.

I hope the exam system changes for the better. Coursework should absolutely matter more.

@ineedaholidaynow

All schools could be moderated. I’m sure there weren’t backhanders paid to the exam boards by private schools

Exactly!

I hope someone is giving these kids good careers advice and telling them what they’re actually capable of at university, rather than what their grades make them eligible for

🙄

… to add. It’s entirely possible that all teachers marked fairly and honestly AND there has been grade inflation. The two things are completely valid things that can happen at the same time because as has been explained one thousand times, teachers can only grade ability based on evidence, NOT on the day performance which is why the grades will always be higher with teacher assessed grades than if the students sat exams.

Nobody has disputed grade inflation isn’t a problem or ideal but the point is, in the absence of exams which the government scrapped this year and last year, teacher assessed grades is the least damaging alternative.

Headsinsand I wouldn't expect private schools to attend meetings run by local authorities that they aren't a part of. I'd be staggered of they didn't have their own process of checks and equality. But it sounds like you are closer to the process and know more about it than I do. I have no evidence. Just faith in my colleagues and on my daughter's teachers.

The rest of your post I absolutely agree with. That's what I've been saying. It's a much more likely explanation for the difference.

I’m laughing at the thought of DS’s teachers awarding grades “Willy nilly”. As if the reputation of an old and well regarded school would be left to chance and open to the possibility of not having many, many assessments to back up the grades.
I remember the first Parents Evening and most of the teachers opening enormous books with every mark in them from assessments. They will still have those (I hope in electronic form to save their backs!) to show even the most forensic moderator why they gave the grade they did.

Stop panicking about these A grades (and please leave our kids who didn't earn As alone too...). You're probably not going to get a doctor someday who was babied through uni but doesn't really understand human anatomy

I know that. Because they won’t last. I’m worried that some of these kids will think they’re suitable when they aren’t and will drop out. Like I said they need good careers advice now.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Dd says an a* in biology is about 60%

Is that true?

No. Most teachers will have used 2019 grade boundaries as a guideline for grading. For Science A levels there are 3 papers. For the first 2 papers the grade boundary for an A* is around 85%. It is slightly lower for the 3rd (synoptic) paper because students find it harder. There are no UMS for 2021 though because each school has interpreted the assessment criteria differently.

@blameitonthecaffeine That's fair, though where I work the private schools do usually attend the exam board meetings and often other events too as it is a good opportunity to get together with other teachers of the same subject. We often share resources and have an online google drive with all the subject teachers (in my subject) in the authority area, including those from the private schools for discussion and so on.

consider do you really think that half of them are suitable for highly academic university courses, even if their grades might make them eligible? Of course they aren’t.

Why wouldn't half of this cohort be suitable for university degrees? So many jobs these days require them. Hasn't there been an enormous push, over the past several years, to make sure more young people can actually go to university and get a chance at a higher education, so that they can then be eligible for those jobs?

I find it so weird that uni is treated like this elitist classy thing in this country that only a few people ought to attend. It's four years of education in addition to high school. Why would you want to deliberately hold half of your youth population away from that?

@Bryonyshcmyony

I hope someone is giving these kids good careers advice and telling them what they’re actually capable of at university, rather than what their grades make them eligible for

🙄

Why the eye roll? Do you think all these kids should be told they’re part of the most amazing cohort this country has ever produced and they’re clearly all so much smarter than everyone who has gone before and they can clearly do anything they want and that’s the reality?

Because it isn’t.

It is an ongoing thing (see the attached graph). In the 80%, less than 10% got an A or A*, this year a mind boggling 45%. And, in those days, far fewer (and only suitable) candidates attempted A levels.

The grade inflation is unhelpful for both pupils and universities.

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So did independent schools have less oversight?

Or the same oversight?

And if the same oversight, why was their increase in A grades so much greater than state selective schools, who almost by definition have very able and motivated pupils?

@NotBadConsidering

Stop panicking about these A grades (and please leave our kids who didn't earn As alone too...). You're probably not going to get a doctor someday who was babied through uni but doesn't really understand human anatomy

I know that. Because they won’t last. I’m worried that some of these kids will think they’re suitable when they aren’t and will drop out. Like I said they need good careers advice now.

I'm not wild about the idea of kids taking on student debt and then binning university courses either. But maybe they're more capable than we think. Their teachers, who worked very hard to figure out what academic levels they were capable of, seem to think so.

@Preech

consider do you really think that half of them are suitable for highly academic university courses, even if their grades might make them eligible? Of course they aren’t.

Why wouldn't half of this cohort be suitable for university degrees? So many jobs these days require them. Hasn't there been an enormous push, over the past several years, to make sure more young people can actually go to university and get a chance at a higher education, so that they can then be eligible for those jobs?

I find it so weird that uni is treated like this elitist classy thing in this country that only a few people ought to attend. It's four years of education in addition to high school. Why would you want to deliberately hold half of your youth population away from that?

I’m not saying that half are not suitable for university degrees. That’s not what the results say. The results say that half are exceptional and suitable for highly exceptional academically difficult degrees. Anyone with any A level result above a U has always been able to find a uni course somewhere in something. But these results suggest that half of 18 year olds are eligible for the most difficult access courses around. It’s not about making them eligible for university all together it’s about how these results suggest their eligible for the high academic, difficult end of university. Half of all 18 year olds.

@herecomesthsun not all private schools are selective. DS's private school isn't

@TheReluctantPhoenix I took A-levels in the 80s, very few people I knew got A grades (I certainly didn't!). I remember when I was having a wobble at university and one of my lecturers told me I was in top 10% having done A-levels, now it is expected that 50% students go to university

And if the same oversight, why was their increase in A grades so much greater than state selective schools, who almost by definition have very able and motivated pupils?

Less disruption to teaching?

@NotBadConsidering and how would anyone begin to pick the A* students that you have that conversation with? That was what the eye roll was for.

If the universities are happy to let them in then perhaps they'll all do better than you think.

And if the same oversight, why was their increase in A grades so much greater than state selective schools, who almost by definition have very able and motivated pupils

Herecomesthesun Do you not think any of the potential reasons offered so far hold up? The differences in amount of online learning offered? The differences in personal circumstances with technology, space, caring needs etc? The differences between schools who followed govt advice to suspend the curriculum and those who didn't? The differences in the amount of bubble popping and isolation disruption? The pupils have been on an even less level playing field than normal so the differences in results are likely to be even bigger.

The difference isn't just state v private. The BBC was highlighting the differences in North v South too.

Maybe instead of berating different systems, this year could be used as a wake up to try and find ways to narrow the gap in educational opportunity. But I don't know if that's possible or not.

DD probably did slightly better out of assessed grades than would have happened in exams (she often fluffs at least one). She is immensely pleased that her university offer was at least partly based on interview and department-specific essays. It removes some of the imposter syndrome.

It does mean that the uni exams will come as more of a shock, though, as it'll be so long since the previous exam hall terror.

@Bryonyshcmyony,

Re private schools, maybe less disruption to teaching but maybe more fear over being sued.

Parents pay for grades and (a significant minority) will chase the school until they are satisfied.

NoBad makes some excellent points. The view that ALL teachers knew exactly what they were doing, spend hours and hours pouring over grades. Just like in life there are good and bad teachers. What about the failing schools. Are we really saying that did all of these things?

Honestly nearly 50% of our students this year are NOT A and A* material. if you want to give them this because they have had a tough time fine but they really arent. It also gives them an opportunity to go on a course that they might not have access to in a normal year. They might do OK or they might really struggle and drop out and feel even worse.

Its not fair on the students