Questioning mumsnet

[lazylump72]

AIBU maybe I am? Just wanted to know how everyone felt about using mumsnet as a safe place to post,ask for guidance,help and advice when it appears not to be.So is it just a platform for entertainment? It does not seem a safe place when posts become articles or even threads are posted by mumsnet on social media? Seen 3 I recognised on facebook this week.Does this make you wary of posting ? I don;t agree things on this site should be public outside of mumsnet What do you all think?

Yes, if anyone's getting paid by the papers it should be MN as it's their content. But indirectly they do, with a bit of free advertising and the possibility of more users.

It’s entertainment, in my opinion. I read threads at night in bed (I know, I know) and I find it lovely relaxing entertainment as it’s still a (mainly) all-female space and I like the amusing & regular humdrum issues about say, household stuff, DCs doing infuriating but amusing things, what shopping people buy etc.

I search it for guidance about specific issues I need information on (living with an aspergers partner e.g.; my toddler’s tantrums etc.) & find it really useful. I sometimes answer threads if I think I can genuinely help, I can tell a troll a mile off (or like to think I can), & I rarely post my deepest, innermost personal thoughts & dilemmas.

In fact I recently deleted my old account and started over because some of my old posts made me feel a bit weird. Yes it’s on the internet. That’s how it works.

@IncessantNameChanger

I have been on here for 18 years. It's always had its nasty posters but you only have to go about three replies down on any AIBU for a guaranteed nasty reply now. Then lots of nasty replies dive in.

Lots of ' none of your business why do you care' on every post. Theres no way those posters are trying to help.

Yes completely agree.

Unless the threads are very straightforward factual questions, there are soooo many nasty/pointless replies now. People opening a thread and taking the time to type "Poor child" or just "I feel sorry for your DS", or whatever.

Literally taking time out of their day just to make another person feel worse.

I agree with PPs - it's not the papers that make it an unsafe and unsupportive place, it's the posters. There are so many people on here who think nothing of showering spite and judgement on those who ask for help - the threads that are 'picked up'/sent to journalists are just one part of what undermines the site in terms of it being a 'safe space'.

@Sparklingbrook

I know it's not the most practical of suggestion but the threads that hit the newspapers are very identifiable and why should the daily Mail make money off people who have posted "anonymously"

You have to have an account to post on MN - it's not a totally open forum - so there should be something that prevents threads being published

I think what I would like to happen is maybe posters were made more aware that when they post content it may be uplifted

By uplifted, you presumably mean read and shared by anyone? I can't imagine how much more obvious that possibility could be, how can anyone using MN get the impression that it's private?

how did the idea that Mumsnet was ever a 'safe space' on the internet come about in the first place?

First I've heard of it. Given it's nickname is 'the nest of vipers' I think it's bloody unlikely that's a thing.

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, there are Twitter and Facebook icons that MN has provided to facilitate your sharing these threads more widely across other platforms. That's how comfortable they are with it. This is not a criticism of the site owners - it's the norm for internet forums.

[quote twinningatlife]@Sparklingbrook

I know it's not the most practical of suggestion but the threads that hit the newspapers are very identifiable and why should the daily Mail make money off people who have posted "anonymously"

You have to have an account to post on MN - it's not a totally open forum - so there should be something that prevents threads being published [/quote]
The whole point is that "anonymously" doesn't affect what can be shared after you post.

[quote twinningatlife]@Sparklingbrook

I know it's not the most practical of suggestion but the threads that hit the newspapers are very identifiable and why should the daily Mail make money off people who have posted "anonymously"

You have to have an account to post on MN - it's not a totally open forum - so there should be something that prevents threads being published [/quote]
It's completely unnecessary and unworkable. The thread belongs to MN once it's posted anyway.
It is an open forum, and if MN were worried about threads being published then I'd have thought by now they would have taken steps to prevent it. The thread gets printed in the press and people not on MN will come over to have a look at the whole thread. More users, more revenue.
MN is a business, it seems a surprise to some.

@GCAcademic

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, there are Twitter and Facebook icons that MN has provided to facilitate your sharing these threads more widely across other platforms. That's how comfortable they are with it. This is not a criticism of the site owners - it's the norm for internet forums.

Yes, they actively encourage it.

You have to have an account to post on MN - it's not a totally open forum - so there should be something that prevents threads being published and how exactly do you propose to do that given MN is a public forum?

There isn’t privacy. There really isn’t. I remember when the twitter/fb shares came into force there was a bit of an outcry, but tbh you don’t even need to have a button, you can just share it from your browser anyway.

As for being identifiable, you’re identifiable even if you don’t get put in the daily mail. So how do you propose to stop that?

Many years ago I was recognised in a shop by another MN’er, based on details I’d posted about myself, where I lived, certain other details.

I don’t really care, I know my current posts would identify me if someone read through them. Posting them here or the Daily Mail isn’t going to change that.

Of course it's not a safe place, it is a public website.

@AlternativePerspective

I've asked this question a lot over the years and no-one seems to have the answer but, how did the idea that Mumsnet was ever a 'safe space' on the internet come about in the first place? I think it’s likely from when MN was a much smaller forum, and because they had a comparatively small number of users, everyone knew everyone, and so one poster’s plight was common knowledge and people stood together iyswim.

So when a poster lost her 2 year old to SIDS there was a mn collective called “Mile for Maud,” where posters walked a mile to raise money for a SIDS charity.

When a poster’s DH had a heart transplant, we had been following his journey through heart failure and the need for transplant, and the belief it would never happen, for several months. And so when he got the call everyone was watching in hope that he would pull through. I even PM’d my mobile number to someone to call me if there was news.

Another poster had a DH who was dying of a brain tumour, and again mn’ers rallied round, did collections for her, sent her groceries etc as she was at home with him and three autistic children so things were understandably difficult for her.

One of the issues which came about because of this is the fact that people saw MN as a generous, giving site, and more and more people came here with their (fake) tales of woe, in the hopes that collections would be started for them too.

And more and more posters came here, and the number of known posters dropped because there were so many.

So in essence, it was never a safe space, but it was a much smaller one, where many posters probably felt more secure in posting.

But those days have long gone.

yes, MN used to be very small and the users were supportive and it was also really quite identifiable, to the extent that Mumsnet used to have Christmas Party that users went too and there were photos of it!

It really didn't start out like it is now. But the whole internet was different then. Sometimes I search a topic and something from 18 years ago comes up in the results and the posts are totally different in style and tone, and the threads much shorter as there were so few users.

I voted yabu- because anything that people put out into “the ether”, on the internet, which is a public domain, is then going to of course be made public as everyone has access to what you have written. The access you have given since you posted it knowing this. (I don’t mean “you” as in you personally. Just in general for anyone who posts).

Also; it isn’t a service based on charity. Although it is a great website for so much advice, support, information and a great source of help and so on, on all the topics you could probably imagine, it is still a type of business. So they (mumsnet) not only rely on the income they make from advertising and such (whatever else they do publicly) to keep the site running and pay their wages for their time spent running it- they also need to advertise it to other potential users/ services/ connections/ advertisers etc. To make the site more well known and to generate clients. This means they will need to post certain things even some threads etc. It’s necessary.

It’s really up to the poster to keep their posts vague re personal details such as names and sensitive information like addresses. As well as keeping the information true as is necessary for the needed advice; whilst keeping it vague enough not to be “outed” by people they know. For example changing ages or small details- if they aren’t relevant to the actual issue they want to get help with.

That’s the responsibility of the person putting their private business into the public domain in order to get help; without causing issues with privacy for themselves.

On a free website. Which really is a goldmine of support, kindness, advice, safety issue advice, information, links to support or emergency services, signposts galore to services much needed such as women’s aid for women being abused and so on. Very often this site has helped women leave relationships that are toxic/damaging/violent/abusive. I can’t imagine how many women men and children this site has helped over the years. For free to the site user. Not to mention the things you can win and stuff by doing their regular questionnaires and things like that which they do often.

So- it’s really up to the user to be grateful and responsible with their information.

Also- mumsnet isn’t responsible for the actions of other outlets such as newspapers taking threads to make entertainment out of them.

Nor are they responsible for posters themselves who either troll or who demand answers from certain types of threads that they seem to view as almost tv- like suspense filled viewing. What mumsnet can and does do is delete the trolls, and remove posts that are trolling/ fake. They also delete bullying posts. As well as being very quick to delete accidental “real name” posting for example, by posters. They also give the option to delete an entire thread if the poster feels that it has become too identifiable. So..

I’m not sure what more they can do. Beyond remove the site and then we would lose, in my view the best support site I have ever come across. Which seems rather “cut off your nose to spite your face” really.

There are some incredibly naive views here. It does make me wonder what some posters are teaching their children about the internet

I also agree with

@Bibidy
And
@IncessantNameChanger

With these following posts;

I have been on here for 18 years. It's always had its nasty posters but you only have to go about three replies down on any AIBU for a guaranteed nasty reply now. Then lots of nasty replies dive in.

Lots of ' none of your business why do you care' on every post. Theres no way those posters are trying to help.

Yes completely agree.

Unless the threads are very straightforward factual questions, there are soooo many nasty/pointless replies now. People opening a thread and taking the time to type "Poor child" or just "I feel sorry for your DS", or whatever.

Literally taking time out of their day just to make another person feel worse.

The first time I posted on mumsnet, I naively posted about a relationship on AIBU. I was incredibly vulnerable at the time. And I was trying to understand and strengthen my boundaries in a new relationship, due to losing my mum to suicide aged 13 - after she had been beaten by my stepdad for many years and couldn’t cope anymore, as well as my own experiences of horrific abuse I had received in relationships. I didn’t know what a healthy relationship was. And I also suffer from severe anxiety.

So I went on and asked about it. I can’t remember all the details this was years ago. But I remember being massively bashed and called a “weirdo” and all kinds of things because I had made a list to try to clarify things in my own mind. A list of pros and cons of his behaviour in the new- ish relationship at the time. To try to, I don’t know. Make things more clear in my mind, and more obvious regarding the “cons” (which were actually abusive behaviours). Trying to clarify my boundaries.

I remember being called a weirdo. Needy/ obsessive/ a lunatic/ creepy. And much more. It was absolutely VILE. It really was.

To this day I don’t see how this was in any way anything more than people purely bullying someone. Of course now years (and a name change) later I know better how mumsnet works. Regarding the hostility of AIBU for example. So I would still post (and have). And received wonderful help. And I have also read many threads over the years. And I have learned a lot from mumsnet - from reading the healthy and helpful replies. It’s taught me a lot.

It’s also taught me how cruel people can be behind a screen. If I see bullying on here now, on threads I’m posting on, I call it out. Of course I get lots of abuse back as a result, when I do call it out (for example when a poster is clearly very vulnerable and really being piled in on). But I couldn’t give two shits these days and am much stronger in myself. I can handle it.

But that woman being beaten who has posted two threads over a six month period (while she’s still trying to gather the strength to leave) and still hasn’t left - she cant handle that level of bullying she would get for not yet leaving. She cant handle being told on top of her abusers nasty words and violence, that she is a bad mother (from strangers on the internet who have no idea). She cant handle being massively dismissed even more, by posters who tell her to “just leave him and stop posting constant threads with the great advice that you never listen to”. And so on.

It’s hard to read sometimes.

I accept that people use MN in different ways. But people seem to think MN is the only place they have to turn to.
There must be loads of websites out there, but a lot of the time for the more serious stuff (if what they have posted is true) they need RL help, not advice from randoms on the internet.

@Sparklingbrook

I accept that people use MN in different ways. But people seem to think MN is the only place they have to turn to.

There must be loads of websites out there, but a lot of the time for the more serious stuff (if what they have posted is true) they need RL help, not advice from randoms on the internet.

I agree with this too. I think the massive rise of unhealthy reliance on the internet/ social media etc has, in part, led to this. And it is unhealthy a lot of the time- where real life support is what is needed. Totally agree

When MN was hacked about 5 years ago it was unavailable for about 3 days IIRC, somehow everyone coped...

@Sparklingbrook

When MN was hacked about 5 years ago it was unavailable for about 3 days IIRC, somehow everyone coped...

I don't consider this a safe place at all. It has its positives and I stick around for those, but besides the security issues I don't actually feel the amount of toxicity on here is good for people's MH if they are struggling with that.

I dont think of mumsnet as a safe space at all, but i do think there is a lot of really good advice and diverse too.

I agree with @ Sparklingbrook i think that people need to get past this notion that MN is the be all and end all.

I’ve lost count of the number of times that people have questioned the removal of a post etc because “mumsnet might be their only source of support.” No. It really shouldn’t be.

And when the decision was made to remove any post where an OP was talking about suicide there was some outcry among many for the same reasons. When actually it shouldn’t be down to posters on MN to be there for someone who wants to commit suicide. That person needs professional help, and MN’ers just aren’t in a position to offer that.

I don't see how posting on an open forum can ever be a safe space and that your expectations are unreasonable op. There are safe spaces out there I guess, but rarely on the internet.