Work telling us we wont get opportunity's if we don't show our faces?

[lovemenomore]

Hi all,

Wanted to know if IABU for being peed off/demoralised at this message from the owner of the company I work for.

Basically started the job in Jan & it has been 100% remote due to Covid/office closed etc. Since the restrictions have lifted I have been in and met colleagues but continued to wfh as do 75% of the company. There has been talk of us never having to go back in full time and people can choose what to do. Nothing formal has been announced. If we do want to go in we have had to book in. However the other day this was posted on our internal comms site;

"While booking is now no longer required, we are noting who turns up. Expect those that do to get the best opportunities and progression. It's obvious that being 'front and centre' means you are top of mind. We've always been a company that prioritises what you do and achieve over simple time served, this is just one aspect of that."

What are your thoughts? To me that is saying if you dont come in you will not be given the opportunities....

Lots of the staff arent local and live all over the country/world. A few of my colleagues are miffed but some friends have said all companies are like this?

@ForgotAboutThis

You absolutely can manage and mentor staff well while WFH.

Some people might be able to, but lots can’t and don’t. It also depends on the person you’re managing.

We’ve just done a survey of several thousand people re return to the office.

Overwhelmingly those at the start of their career want to be in the office. Reasons cited are predominantly around development opportunity and mentorship with a significant number also stating that their homes are not set up to facilitate WFH due to lack of space and privacy.

Additionally more senior employees are happy to work from home whilst everyone is but they want to conform to the norm once offices are open.

We’re a competitive workplace. Exceptionally good salaries and benefits and the sort of company that really attracts talant (“Forbes top…” lists etc)

@ExtraOnions

I hope they face a good HR department .. people may be unable to come in for a variety of reasons, around COVID. To discriminate against people who may need to self-isolate, live with clinically vulnerable people, or who may have health conditions themselves … will see them in a tribunal quicker than you can say “lateral flow test”

No they won't, plenty of people have been at work throughout, pretty sure they've not all taken their employers to tribunals.

It's honest. Can't fault it for that. As an introvert who's wfh for years, I kind of don't like it. But I'll admit that being front and centre in the office is what got me where I am today, so I can't fault it.

It shows a level of effort being put in. If I was still young enough to be career hungry I'd be getting my arse in that office.

The company I work for is 100% WFH. We all keep in contact, support each other and share knowledge with each other and new starters. We're aware that we don't have the benefit of working alongside each other to gain knowledge and have developed systems which I think are better, it's more organised.

Even without meeting in person we know who has particular strengths. People have been promoted and not everyone passes probation. Even if WFH it's clear when someone isn't pulling their weight.

No one is invisible either, online meetings are just as effective as booking a meeting room. And because we've made the effort, I've also got to know colleagues from other departments which never happened as much in office based jobs.

So many companies have been forced to WFH for over a year, I'm really surprised that so many are still struggling with it. It depends on the business though. I just see a lot of negative comments on MN about WFH.

I think it could potentially be indirect discrimination. This policy could be unfair for women with children and people with disabilities. Unless there is a reasonable business need, which there doesn't appear to be. The employer has possibly been pretty daft to send that email.

These absolute dinosaurs, I'm amazed how many people think this is reasonable. They need a management system that measures effort, skill and results from people both in office and WFH. We're never going back to an office-based culture. They're admitting out loud that time in office = progression, nice one for all the part-time workers out there, or people who need to leave the office before the cosy drinks party because they have kids to pick up.
This is so, so lazy on their part, I hope they get sued.

I don’t know why it’s an either/or. Surely you can have a mix of in office presence and WFH. I wouldn’t want people in my team to wfh 100% of the time (I manage a team of 20) but I’m happy for a mix. I get to know them better when we are in the office and they can be trusted to wfh as well.

@viques

Interesting article on the BBC news website (and make sure you read the comments too). Ocado has announced that it will allow workers to work abroad for a month a year . No, not the delivery drivers, that would be silly . A lot of the comments speculate that this is a toe dipping exercise by Ocado which could lead to jobs being outsourced to abroad. After all, if a UK based employee can work effectively from abroad then why not employ someone permanently at a far lower cost.

Let’s hope other companies don’t start thinking on similar veins about WFH.

I'm not so sure that allowing existing workers to work abroad necessarily will lead to outsourcing. These will be people who have trained and worked on site and who have existing "real life" relationships with teams and bosses. They will only be "away" for a short time, and the employer will still be dealing with UK employment law, tax etc,much less hassle than changing your whoe recruitment procedure.

On the other hand UK- based employees get the regular opportunity to spend time abroad perhaps with family if they have non UK relatives. I worked in Asia for years and would have loved to have been able to do a month a year back in the UK. I think it would be a a great retention perk.

Well of course you can still self-promote when whf. Just set up lots of catch-ups, be the loudest voice in virtual meetings, go to virtual events etc. It's all the stuff we've been forced to do over the past 18 months and it's worked really well in my opinion. Maybe it's harder for some people to do this, but I'd argue it's because we are not used to it and maybe more creativity is required.

We're never going back to an office-based culture

I think you’ll find we are. It takes a lot more than 18 months in a national emergency to change decades of culture, especially if the youngest section of the workforce wants to be office based.

I think the employer should lead and ensure that their staff fully understand expectations.

I am lucky, our employer has had projects to review ways of working and move to a hybrid system.

As we are across many locations the remote working has been great for cross location collaboration so this mixture of office and remote based should be excellent. Imo

Why would they get sued? Their employees signed a contract with the office as their designated place of work. A return to the office was always on the cards unless that contract was changed.

As a society we need to move towards increased WFH to achieve our environmental goals of less car use. Companies who are refusing to comply are part of the problem.

what sort of opportunities do you think you'll miss out on by not sitting at a desk in the office? How long do you expect to be in this job? a year? 2 years? longer term?

I would make the effort to go into the office a couple of times a week and be 'visible' while you're there ie touch base with as many people as possible, be there for meetings, group lunches etc - make yourself known, and then work the rest of the time from home.

If you don't go in at all people will overlook you. When seniors are on holiday etc you could work from home that week as there won't be anyone there to notice.

Presumably there is a core of colleagues who you deal with on a daily basis and who will continue to be aware of your existence.

I think you’ll find we are. It takes a lot more than 18 months in a national emergency to change decades of culture

I give it another 18 months and I suspect most companies will be back to 2019 working patterns with perhaps a little more flexibility to wfh a day a week.

@Crowsaregreat

These absolute dinosaurs, I'm amazed how many people think this is reasonable. They need a management system that measures effort, skill and results from people both in office and WFH. We're never going back to an office-based culture. They're admitting out loud that time in office = progression, nice one for all the part-time workers out there, or people who need to leave the office before the cosy drinks party because they have kids to pick up. This is so, so lazy on their part, I hope they get sued.

yep, there are labour shortages across all sectors at the moment, and hope that people (particularly those with lots of skill) vote with their feet and go to more progressive employers. This is already happening, certainly in my sector

As a society we need to move towards increased WFH to achieve our environmental goals of less car use.

We’d just be creating more problems by hearing lots of individual houses through the day.

@theemmadilemma

It's honest. Can't fault it for that. As an introvert who's wfh for years, I kind of don't like it. But I'll admit that being front and centre in the office is what got me where I am today, so I can't fault it.

It shows a level of effort being put in. If I was still young enough to be career hungry I'd be getting my arse in that office.

I don't see it as honest. It comes across as them being afraid to just come out and say "We want everyone in the office 3 days a week" so instead are making vague threats about consequences for not coming in.

I've WFH since way before Covid and thankfully my company aren't one of the crap ones that can't manage, promote and support staff remotely.

It's actually embarrassing of them to admit that they're too shit to remember who works for them unless the see them at the water cooler and that they don't monitor people's performance.

@Amima

As a society we need to move towards increased WFH to achieve our environmental goals of less car use. Companies who are refusing to comply are part of the problem.

I don't think it's as clear cut as that re the environment. If an office has 30 employees, assuming they come from different households, its heating, lighting, powering one office compared to 30 individual homes. Of course the office is going to be bigger, and computers etc will use the same- but there's definitely an emissions saving on people being out of their houses for 8 hours a day and in one place. Some people will use public transport or walk to work as well. It would be interesting as to how this, on average, compares to commuting.

@TheKeatingFive

I think you’ll find we are. It takes a lot more than 18 months in a national emergency to change decades of culture

I give it another 18 months and I suspect most companies will be back to 2019 working patterns with perhaps a little more flexibility to wfh a day a week.

I agree with you. Wfh is a blip.

It's quite a polarising debate, and I suspect there will be a time where some companies are much more in-office, whilst others move to more WFH by default. It'll be interesting to see which model wins over time, or if both continue.

I've had a lot of flexibility in my career and totally dislike the two extremes, but do lean towards an office base for 4 days a week for work/life separation. I even chose my last job because it was an easy commute, which was handy when the children were small. Others have different preferences.

The hard bit seems to be companies deciding which way they will go.
Most management teams seem to be lacking leadership and ending up in a middle ground fudged mess with everyone fed up.

Credit to this company to being honest that it prefers people in the office. And to the companies that have sold their offices and said to staff that they can WFH forever. At least you are clear - and can get a job with another company that prefers the model you prefer.

"It's actually embarrassing of them to admit that they're too shit to remember who works for them unless the see them at the water cooler and that they don't monitor people's performance."

Totally agree @HeckyPeck. It's like those men who say women slept their way into a promotion don't realise that they're basically admitting they don't promote without sexual favours...

I'm not so sure that allowing existing workers to work abroad necessarily will lead to outsourcing.

Agreed, it's not about outsourcing at all. We have a high % of staff that are non-UK, and the requests have come from them to be able to work from their home countries for part of the year (this has been denied owing to tax implications). Ocado is probably responding to something like that.

Honestly it just shows they are a badly run company, for their employees at least.

You shouldn't need to see someone every day, all day, to know what they are working on. Your manager should be aware of what you are working on and shouldn't need to check in every few mins to know you're doing it. We are adults, not children. If you actually need to physically see your employee to know they are doing their job, you are a micro manager, not a manager.

It's also literally just showing they are happy to accept seeing someone physically as meaning they must be working. I've seen this in other companies, it's essentially the ones who kiss ass the best that get promotions. Even when they are crap at their job.

“We are noting who turns up”. Wow, I would look for a new job. They are trying to micro manage, while they have no clue who their most valuable employees are. Just because you are in an office, doesn’t mean you do the best work. And who will profit most from this narrow mindedness? Men, who are more likely to go to the office anyway. Nothing ever changes.