To ground her over this

[Weirdmom]

So my daughter (11) has spent most of the last week playing outside with her new friends, the neighbourhood kids. From early morning to late evening, I've had to make her come in at lunch and dinner to eat.
This morning I told her we had to go out to the shops for a few hours but she kicked up such a fuss when I went to call her him, calling us 'tw*t' and a 'bitch' so I said because of her behaviour she wouldn't be allowed out when we got back.
I reminded her of this several times while we were out after her mentioning it but when we walked past her friends she kicked up a fuss again, calling names, and throwing things, then snuck out of the house to take her friend a drawing, so I said she would be grounded the next day aswell as she didn't respect my rules...

She was getting very angry saying her friends are the only people who help her calm down so I suggested things we could do instead, then ran her a bath, put some candles etc... She calmed down.
Then once she got out of the bath she kept pushing again asking to go out etc I said the discussion was over and my answer was not changing. She decided to be verbally abusive again and ran off again, after twenty minutes I managed to get her back inside as it's 8 o clock at this point. And she's kicking off again. She wishes we were all dead, she wishes she was dead, trashed her room, said her friends won't be her friends anymore now she's grounded etc.

Was I too harsh in my consequence?
What would everyone else do?

I literally feel like whatever I do I'm in the wrong.

There are definately underlying issues which I'm going to book a gp appt for I think.

Any help is appreciated, I really feel like the absolute worst parent on earth.

Not harsh enough. She’s 11 and swearing at you, running off and trashing her room? It sounds like there are other issues.

I’m sorry you’re going though this OP. I think it’s very easy for other people looking in from the outside to say ‘do this’ or ‘do that’. Often behaviour like this does not respond to conventional wisdom. Clearly this sounds behaviourally out of character …your instincts are telling you something is amiss. I think a visit to the GP will do no harm and is a sensible step to take. Any child that’s saying they wish they were dead….even if they turn out to be empty words said in the heat of the moment, needs to be focussed on. Keep an eye out for signs of alcohol or any possible substance use or your child feeling pressured to get anywhere or do anything for anyone else. I’d start with the GP. Wishing you both well.

Christ, I have 13 and 10YO DDs and if either of them called me a bitch, they wouldn’t step foot out of the house for at least a fortnight, would have all devices removed too and stern words about the misogynistic language.

They would be bored shitless and whine but they’d get nowt more than a shrug from me.

Thanks for everyone's messages and advice. Unfortunately the swearing and trashing of rooms is not a new thing and can't be blamed on the new friends, it's just getting worse as she gets older. I have tried positive parenting, old school consequences, nothing I do has any affect if I'm honest and I'm completely lost. It's just consequence on top of consequence and no change where I get to the point where its just such a negative cycle. I have tried getting her reffered to cahms a few times with no luck. I do suspect something like adhd/autism/odd hence the gp appointment I'll be booking. I'm just struggling with what to do next.

I am confused about the gp appointment?

Like PP I definitely wouldn't of ran her bath with candles if my 11 yo started calling me names. She gets grounded for a week for giving me backchat and sassy attitude.
I'd ground her longer than a week with this situation.
My DD was grounded three whole weeks only two months ago because of the way she was behaving and talking to me it'd get to the last day and something would kick her off again so she trash her room - that's another week. She got the hint in the end. In my house grounded is no phone no tv/Xbox etc. You can read or colour in. Stick with it and also go go for anything else you have concerns about.

@MrsSkylerWhite

“At 11 I was babysitting other children“

Really bad idea.

Things were different in 1945

@FangsForTheMemory

Well what do you know, sometimes it is a pigeon ffs

You probably need to break the cycle of negativity and engage positively with her. That’s an awful lot of self-employed/feral time for quite a young child.
Perhaps set up some more structure and reward positive behaviour without becoming a pushover. Positive parenting is not about letting them get away with bad behaviour.
If she happens to have some autistic traits or has ADHD, then structure will help even more.
Plan a routine, make sure she’s aware of it, stick to it. That routine should include nice activities with the family/a parent. At eleven she’s too young for her peers to become the dominant influence.

I’d avoid getting too far down the sanctions route. They have limited effect unless consequences are known ahead and reasons for the consequences are known. A knee jerk grounding or excessive response breeds resentment not good relationships.

Start improving relationships before she’s much further towards her teenage years or you’ll be setting yourself up for a tempestuous time.

She's found something that she s really enjoying. From her pov, you're stopping her and being a spolisport. All tweens get gobby at times. Two days missing out on what she most wants to do sounds overly harsh to me.

Quite shocking behaviour for an 11 year old, looks like she is really struggling. Perhaps whilst waiting for the appointment seriously reduce the hours she is out (early morning until night, accept meals) It may be that she needs more supervision. She is more vulnerable if she has the potential to display this behaviour to others whilst out in the neighbourhood. Goodness knows what reaction she could get from people.

@LemonRoses

You probably need to break the cycle of negativity and engage positively with her. That’s an awful lot of self-employed/feral time for quite a young child. Perhaps set up some more structure and reward positive behaviour without becoming a pushover. Positive parenting is not about letting them get away with bad behaviour. If she happens to have some autistic traits or has ADHD, then structure will help even more. Plan a routine, make sure she’s aware of it, stick to it. That routine should include nice activities with the family/a parent. At eleven she’s too young for her peers to become the dominant influence.

I’d avoid getting too far down the sanctions route. They have limited effect unless consequences are known ahead and reasons for the consequences are known. A knee jerk grounding or excessive response breeds resentment not good relationships.

Start improving relationships before she’s much further towards her teenage years or you’ll be setting yourself up for a tempestuous time.

Agree totally with this. It won’t be easy but trying to improve relationships and boundaries rather than becoming more and more punitive is the way to go.

People talking about it being a ‘battle’ and locking doors and windows ... this will just alienate her more. I thought your strategy of a bath to calm her down was a good one. Trying to teach her skills and strategies when she is not upset is also good.

@Weirdmom , reading through some of the shocked replies on here brings a wry smile to my face and with you mentioning the GP I suspected your daughter might, as you suspect, need a diagnosis.

In anger I've been called all those things and worse. And in response to your AIBU question, yes YABU. She won't respond well to consequences or punishment it will make the situation worse.

Step back and don't escalate the situation. Keep calm. Read up on Non Violent Resolution and push for a CAHMS referral through your GP if your school aren't on board.

AlmostSummer21

MrsSkylerWhite
“At 11 I was babysitting other children“

Really bad idea.

“Things were different in 1945”

Indeed they were. Mum played on bombsites. Wouldn’t recommend that either

I’d ground her for the name calling alone. Does she always act like that and call you names or is it new. Why does she think that’s acceptable That’s not normal behaviour in my experience.

I don’t think you were harsh, quite the opposite!

[quote adhdpunchbag]@Weirdmom , reading through some of the shocked replies on here brings a wry smile to my face and with you mentioning the GP I suspected your daughter might, as you suspect, need a diagnosis.

In anger I've been called all those things and worse. And in response to your AIBU question, yes YABU. She won't respond well to consequences or punishment it will make the situation worse.

Step back and don't escalate the situation. Keep calm. Read up on Non Violent Resolution and push for a CAHMS referral through your GP if your school aren't on board. [/quote]
I agree with this. If you think that she potentially has an underlying condition then boundaries and punishments might not be as straight forward as they would for a NT child. I have a child with PDA, if I took something off him as a punishment he would go nuclear. So we don't do that, we work with him not against him because he can definitely push back harder.

Equally, if she has an underlying condition she's more vulnerable when she is unsupervised, so I'd be thinking about supervising from a distance when she goes out too.

She sounds awful. You need to be more strict with her I'd ground her for longer and take away her favourite things.

ADHD and ASD kids will respond well to punishment. Do some of you let your asd/adhd get away with stuff like that?! God give me strength. Glad I punished mine they are well behaved children.

Mine is well behaved too but was a huge worry at 11. I stopped punishments and focussed on relationships and am delighted I did. The escalation caused by punishment was very counter productive. I would also be inclined to focus on positive parenting and de escalation especially while you wait for further involvement. I would limit more strictly her ‘free time’ though. It’s very hard to win back what you have given away so I would aim to shrink it down.

If my kids at any age had called me names, it wouldn't have been a bloody candle lit bath they were getting, trust me.

@LemonRoses

You probably need to break the cycle of negativity and engage positively with her. That’s an awful lot of self-employed/feral time for quite a young child. Perhaps set up some more structure and reward positive behaviour without becoming a pushover. Positive parenting is not about letting them get away with bad behaviour. If she happens to have some autistic traits or has ADHD, then structure will help even more. Plan a routine, make sure she’s aware of it, stick to it. That routine should include nice activities with the family/a parent. At eleven she’s too young for her peers to become the dominant influence.

I’d avoid getting too far down the sanctions route. They have limited effect unless consequences are known ahead and reasons for the consequences are known. A knee jerk grounding or excessive response breeds resentment not good relationships.

Start improving relationships before she’s much further towards her teenage years or you’ll be setting yourself up for a tempestuous time.

I appreciate this comment, that's what I'd really like to do. If anyone could give me examples of their routines with similar aged children or positive parenting tips I'd be very grateful. I really would like to improve our relationships and also that between her siblings, the one with her brother especially as he also take the brunt of alot of her native behaviour and name calling. She doesn't normally spend so much time with her friends it has just been this one week only, as it was just nice to see her out and having fun.

@QualityMarguerite

Mine is well behaved too but was a huge worry at 11. I stopped punishments and focussed on relationships and am delighted I did. The escalation caused by punishment was very counter productive. I would also be inclined to focus on positive parenting and de escalation especially while you wait for further involvement. I would limit more strictly her ‘free time’ though. It’s very hard to win back what you have given away so I would aim to shrink it down.

Hi thanks for your comment, do you have any advice on where to start with improving our relationships? Or what you think a good limit on free time is?

@BizzyIzzyfruitpie

I’d ground her for the name calling alone. Does she always act like that and call you names or is it new. Why does she think that’s acceptable That’s not normal behaviour in my experience.

I don’t think you were harsh, quite the opposite!

This is the new normal for her if I'm honest and I've given up after the last few years of getting nowhere and nothing working.

[quote adhdpunchbag]@Weirdmom , reading through some of the shocked replies on here brings a wry smile to my face and with you mentioning the GP I suspected your daughter might, as you suspect, need a diagnosis.

In anger I've been called all those things and worse. And in response to your AIBU question, yes YABU. She won't respond well to consequences or punishment it will make the situation worse.

Step back and don't escalate the situation. Keep calm. Read up on Non Violent Resolution and push for a CAHMS referral through your GP if your school aren't on board. [/quote]
Thank you I will definitely read up on this.

You don’t feel it but you have plenty of ideas. You were thoughtful and calm in the face of poor behaviour.

I would still enforce the grounding then let her select some pockets of time. Could you hook up some other areas with things she will do with you and enjoy/accepts are needed. A visit to family or a swim or similar?

I might try love bombing a bit. What can you use to connect. Old toddler photos, a shared manicure, a favourite meal. Being clear about the key rules but being clear also about how much you love her. Grab any calmer movements to work in this.

Get the GP apt and see if school can link you to any local charities that provide support.