Being irritated at "would of, could of....."

[DuchessOfDisaster]

I cringe when I see this written down. Along with "defiantly" for definitely and other examples. I don't see there is ever any excuse. And the excuse that "language evolves" doesn't wash, because "to of" is not a verb and never will be no matter how language evolves. It's not the same as adopting words from other cultures, new words like selfies, or a different meaning for "sick", for example.

OK, when we say "would've", "could've" etc, it may SOUND similar, but that's no excuse either. It implies the writer has never seen "would have" etc written down, therefore doesn't read much. What did they do at school? Was this style of writing used then and never corrected?

Another cringeworthy example is the inability to differentiate between there/they're/their and your/you're.

Just why do people do it and worse, why is it excused?

I do feel a bit sorry for mono-linguals who struggle to write to a minimum standard in their one language

This is a much more polite way of expressing exactly how I feel about it than I ever could.

@Caramellatteplease

Language changes. We dont speak Beowulf, Chaucer or Shakespeare style English. Verb tenses are dropped, verbs change.

The main thing is to convey meaning. You understand could of as easily as could have and actually it makes just as much sense.

So it doesn’t matter if novels and newspapers and important reports are full of could of and would of? As long as the meaning is clear, no need to edit them out?

In formal writing of course it matters.

People who correct grammar/spelling mistakes on informal internet forums/ SM etc are proper dicks though.

No. Language pedants say nothing of the sort. We go off for hours talking about why, historically and linguistically something happens. We find it interesting. Smug people who (as evidenced here) think they know about language rarely know as much as they think, and resort to "oooh listen to the thicko".

What does ‘no’ mean here? Which part are you disagreeing with?

@Pumperthepumper

No. Language pedants say nothing of the sort. We go off for hours talking about why, historically and linguistically something happens. We find it interesting. Smug people who (as evidenced here) think they know about language rarely know as much as they think, and resort to "oooh listen to the thicko".

What does ‘no’ mean here? Which part are you disagreeing with?

That you think "pedants" are the people who like to criticise others.

so I feel it's unfair to judge somebody for saying would of, could of, or we was or lore and awdah!. You might as well judge them for not speaking opening their mouth and speaking out loud in Italian.

The thing is, everyone says would’ve, could’ve but many don’t have the grammatical understanding that it is would have and not would of. With the added complication that while of sounds like ‘ov’ it is spelled ‘of’.

I do feel a bit sorry for mono-linguals who struggle to write to a minimum standard in their one language.

OK. I'm sure they appreciate your pity.

It can contribute to the communication failing, though, can't it?

Yes. If someone writes 'she defiantly told the teacher she had not done the homework' do they mean defiantly, or do they mean definitely? And how might it affect the way the situation was handled?

And people certainly do say 'could of', two separate words, not 'could've'.

That you think "pedants" are the people who like to criticise others.

Grammar pedants. Which you changed to language pedants.

All those things do make me despair of the school system, when most of them should have been sorted out by the end of primary school.

I used to teach English to (largely) speakers of Arabic, and it would take me just one session to sort out e.g. it’s/its. These things really are not at all difficult, if they’re explained properly.

Though having said that, plenty of people don’t care or like to think they don’t matter. IMO anyone who tells kids that these things don’t matter any more, nobody but fusty old pedants care, are doing them a great disservice.

Just for starters, where there are a lot of applications for the same job, the easiest way to weed them out is to bin any with basic SPAG mistakes. And no, spellcheck is not an adequate substitute.

It's amusing to me to read the different opinions about how grammar pendants react. When I say 'nails down a board', I actually mean I get more or less this identical physical sensation, along with the revulsion and the 'please, god, make it stop!', and an urge to claw at my own face. I don't know if this is a reaction that any other autistic people also experience, but what is curious is that it only occurs with the misuse of "of", and not with other common errors such as "there/their/they're", or "lose/loose". Those I just find mildly irritating. And no, I never highlight it or point it out, no matter how triggered by it I am.

I always assume ‘defiantly’ is an autocorrect TBH. Not an incorrect spelling.

YANBU. No one ever writes “I of done that” so why write “I would of done that”. It’s just completely the wrong word.

You’re right and that’s a good way of explaining it, but some people have just never thought about it.

@Geamhradh that's really interesting about the phase of experimenting with the rules!

I'm a real pedant. I can understand the odd slip with of instead of 've as it sounds similar but I actually think a lot of people don't even realise it's wrong or why.

Nail on head!

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

All those things do make me despair of the school system, when most of them should have been sorted out by the end of primary school.

I used to teach English to (largely) speakers of Arabic, and it would take me just one session to sort out e.g. it’s/its. These things really are not at all difficult, if they’re explained properly.

Though having said that, plenty of people don’t care or like to think they don’t matter. IMO anyone who tells kids that these things don’t matter any more, nobody but fusty old pedants care, are doing them a great disservice.

Just for starters, where there are a lot of applications for the same job, the easiest way to weed them out is to bin any with basic SPAG mistakes. And no, spellcheck is not an adequate substitute.

Or maybe, instead of not giving a shit or being lazy, it’s because when you were eight your parents were both alcoholics and you never had enough to eat and it was your responsibility to get yourself and your younger sister ready for school and there on time when you couldn’t tell the time, and you never had breakfast and the other kids laughed at you for being smelly, so focusing on the intricacies of the English language was never really something you were able to do on top of everything else.

It can contribute to the communication failing, though, can't it? Say someone did write a love letter like this to the OP and OP could then no longer focus on or embrace the loving sentiment, but just ended up put off.

In that case it would serve it’s purpose as OP would know she could never be with such a dim uneducated person regardless of their superficial attractiveness!

Ah! The grammar police are out in force today. Do try not to be so judgemental, it makes you come across as smug and over-privileged. Most of the could of/should of mistakes you will see are on forums like this, where, honestly, grammar just doesn't matter at all.

@seasonalremarks

It's not laziness. I am amazed that people are so narrow minded to believe - even teachers!

There are many reasons why people say things that are grammatically incorrect.

What are the many reasons, please?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER I hope I never have the pleasure of your company.

Can you not see the irony in your username?

It’s a tough one. I hate it too but I have a friend with a phd who’s spelling is appalling so I’ve just had to accept that there’s something that makes people spell incorrectly despite seeing it written correctly all the time. Also don’t discount autocorrect which often isn’t correct at all for the context!

@luciasanta

English as a second language
Dyslexia
Poor childhood
Exhaustion
Mental health difficulties
Disorganised education
Bullying, leading to missed education
Lack of confidence
English as a third language
Hearing difficulties in early childhood
Poor short term memory
Difficulties typing
Dyspraxia
ADHD
English as a fourth language

@luciasanta I think Pumperthepumper has made this clear throughout this thread.

I coudn't be bothered to have my thoughts(grammatical errors) picked apart by a hornet's nest tbh.

I had a dream last night (or nightmare??) that I was being scolded for doing this. I'd been hired as a nanny and the mother was saying perhaps I shouldn't be around children if I can't get such a thing correct. Woke up so anxious and upset

Makes me cringe- I don't think it's to do with education either- two intelligent friends of mine do it all the time!!
It's not judgemental to say you find it irritating.
And if it is auto correct then you can check before you post!!!