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Original poster

Being irritated at "would of, could of....."

335 replies

DuchessOfDisaster · 08/08/2021 10:46

I cringe when I see this written down. Along with "defiantly" for definitely and other examples. I don't see there is ever any excuse. And the excuse that "language evolves" doesn't wash, because "to of" is not a verb and never will be no matter how language evolves. It's not the same as adopting words from other cultures, new words like selfies, or a different meaning for "sick", for example.

OK, when we say "would've", "could've" etc, it may SOUND similar, but that's no excuse either. It implies the writer has never seen "would have" etc written down, therefore doesn't read much. What did they do at school? Was this style of writing used then and never corrected?

Another cringeworthy example is the inability to differentiate between there/they're/their and your/you're.

Just why do people do it and worse, why is it excused?

OP posts:
HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 08/08/2021 11:18

You understand could of as easily as could have and actually it makes just as much sense.

How?

nancydroo · 08/08/2021 11:19

[quote Sparklesocks]@DuchessOfDisaster well yes, no shit. Doesn’t mean we need to look down at them though does it.[/quote]
I agree

seasonalremarks · 08/08/2021 11:19

It's not laziness. I am amazed that people are so narrow minded to believe - even teachers!

There are many reasons why people say things that are grammatically incorrect.

PearlFriday · 08/08/2021 11:19

.
Once upon a time I might have thought ''why can you not say "have gone'', why do you say ''have went'' but as I read in books like the language instinct (I think!) we learn what's modelled to us at a young age and it's a miracle how consistent it is. How we learn it exactly! What's modelled to us is what we learn. That's language.

By the time you get to school and some teacher is saying ''have gone not have went'' or ''brought not brung'' or ''have run not have ran'' it's too late. The correct language in that deep part of our brains is formed.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to improve our language, I have improved my spelling over the years. But saying you ''cringe'' at mistakes is really harsh imo.

seasonalremarks · 08/08/2021 11:20

*this

Geamhradh · 08/08/2021 11:20

@PearlFriday

But that's an unrealistic expectation. People who say it think they're saying it right. How are they suddenly supposed to know when they're writing it.
Quite. The UK education system didn't focus in any way on correct syntax and language analysis for decades. Rightly or wrongly. It does now, (cue the many posts saying "why oh why does my child need to know what a hanging gerund is")

As has been explained a million times...nobody is saying "could of". They are saying "could've" Weak form schwa vowel phoneme used due to syntax words in connected speech being unstressed.
That it has carried over into writing is unfortunate, but understandable, especially in a non-phonetically regular language like English. And for real pedants and linguists, it's also very interesting. David Crystal has a few articles about it, and most recently mentioned the phenomenon in a webchat with Alistair Grant.
If David Crystal can discuss it without being "irritated" or smug and superior, then so can the rest of us. Though it does prove the old adage that those who know the least about something are those who tend to think the opposite is true.

Knittingupastorm · 08/08/2021 11:21

The purpose of language is to communicate. If you're making yourself understood, then you're doing it right.

It irritates me when people say this because I don’t believe they totally mean the bit about if you can be understood then you’re fine. If you were writing a cover letter for a job application, and you were about to send it off but spotted you’d put “their” instead of “there”, you’d correct it. You wouldn’t think “ah well, the meaning is clear so it doesn’t matter” and send it.
On social media or in a text you might not bother correcting it but in other situations you’d know that it’s not all about just being understood.

PearlFriday · 08/08/2021 11:21

Steven Pinker - The Language Instinct.

It's a really good read. I recommend it.

Topseyt · 08/08/2021 11:21

It drives me round the bend too.

I think that in most cases it is laziness. Not all though, I suppose.

seasonalremarks · 08/08/2021 11:22

It is not laziness!

RubyGoat · 08/08/2021 11:22

I take your would of / could of, & raise you would on / should on, and confusingly, all on, pronounced ornen. (All on = all of)

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 08/08/2021 11:23

Bane of my internet life. I find it horribly discordant and it has an effect on me similar to the 'nails down a blackboard' that sets most people off.

I know why people do it, because they've heard 'could've', 'would've' etc, and mistakenly assumed they are hearing 'could of', but I can't help but wonder if any of the culprits ever attended school, or if they did, did their school not teach basic written English?

No academic institution would ever permit the flagrant use of 'could of', or absolute dogs breakfasts like 'I would of have to of', so yes, it might be pompous, but as someone who would have been reamed into next week for writing something like that in school, I always wonder where on earth people picked it up. I mean, it's an entirely incorrect word, not just a spelling mistake or something trivial Confused

PearlFriday · 08/08/2021 11:23

@Knittingupastorm of course, and guidance in the areas you're weak in is a great resource. Especially when job-hunting. But it's the reaction to the mistakes that shows wisdom and empathy (or not). Is that reaction an inclination to support and guide and teach - with the understanding that it's actually counterintuitive to UN learn the language patterns solidified at a v young age? Or is the reaction to be irritated? to ''cringe'?!

BizzyIzzyfruitpie · 08/08/2021 11:24

I think some people write as they talk.

I get annoyed at the use of your instead of you’ll. it makes absolutely no sense! Same as saying “ instead” of “aitch”. Winds me up no end and it is unreasonable to get so annoyed by it but I just do 😂

Sakura7 · 08/08/2021 11:25

I see "quite" and "quiet" mixed up a lot too.

"Of" instead of "have" drives me nuts.

BizzyIzzyfruitpie · 08/08/2021 11:25

That’s “haitch” instead of “Aitch” 😂😂😂😂😂

CecilyP · 08/08/2021 11:26

OK, when we say "would've", "could've" etc, it may SOUND similar, but that's no excuse either. It implies the writer has never seen "would have" etc written down, therefore doesn't read much. What did they do at school? Was this style of writing used then and never corrected?

Actually, it implies nothing of the kind. People can read plenty and just not take this sort of thing in. In addition correcting work without explanation, does nothing to further understanding of why this is wrong.

Sparklingbrook · 08/08/2021 11:26

@SilentPanic

The purpose of language is to communicate. If you're making yourself understood, then you're doing it right. Grammar is a really weird thing to shame people about. You're not superior because you know what you feel are the definitive rules of how people should communicate. I say this as someone who has made a living out of writing for many, many years. Chill out.
I agree with this.
LizJamIsFab · 08/08/2021 11:27

I was quite a “good” student (compliant, did homework) but not a natural at English. Our English teaching was rubbish in primary and secondary, rarely marked, nearly no grammar taught. I only really know that since my eldest did secondary school exam preparation, a lot new to me.

Children need to be told they have made a mistake and learn to write correctly. I think this is not done everywhere.

Who is going to correct adults? Siblings maybe, colleagues? Only if they know better, have good relationship, see them writing and think it significant enough to mention ie probably no-one

Geamhradh · 08/08/2021 11:27

@PearlFriday

. Once upon a time I might have thought ''why can you not say "have gone'', why do you say ''have went'' but as I read in books like the language instinct (I think!) we learn what's modelled to us at a young age and it's a miracle how consistent it is. How we learn it exactly! What's modelled to us is what we learn. That's language.

By the time you get to school and some teacher is saying ''have gone not have went'' or ''brought not brung'' or ''have run not have ran'' it's too late. The correct language in that deep part of our brains is formed.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to improve our language, I have improved my spelling over the years. But saying you ''cringe'' at mistakes is really harsh imo.

There's also the interesting aspect of hyper-correction with child language acquisition. Children will learn irregular forms first, because they become hard-wired more quickly. They then learn regular forms, and apply those rules to what's already been hard-wired. It's why children will go through a period of saying "I ran" then briefly, it will turn to "I runned" as their brains "experiment" with rules.
Pumperthepumper · 08/08/2021 11:28

English isn’t everyone’s first language. Some people have additional educational needs. Some people had horrible childhoods meaning their basic education took a back seat.

Grammar pedants say they hate mistakes like ‘of’ or ‘there/your’ in the wrong place, buts it’s a lie. They fucking love it. It’s an opportunity to point out how clever they are and tut about laziness. It’s a chance to gather a tribe to look down on people, it’s their most favourite thing. That’s why so many of them point it out publicly - it’s to shame the writer, not to help them learn. If it was to help them learn they’d send a PM. It’s pathetic.

Geamhradh · 08/08/2021 11:28

@BizzyIzzyfruitpie

I think some people write as they talk.

I get annoyed at the use of your instead of you’ll. it makes absolutely no sense! Same as saying “ instead” of “aitch”. Winds me up no end and it is unreasonable to get so annoyed by it but I just do 😂

You might want to read some of the threads on Northern Irish sectarianism before finding the haitch v aitch argument quite so funny. Hmm
ElliottSmithsfingers · 08/08/2021 11:29

I'm fluent in three European languages, have a basic knowledge of a further three. English is by far the easiest of all. I frequent a number of forums in different languages and there are very few mistakes of the type you are talking about (i.e. fundamental misunderstanding of grammar and syntax relating to the specific language) in non English forums. Not sure why. It feels like the poorly educated in the UK are much more poorly educated than in other (European) countries. Perhaps the reason is that English is so easy, hence no need to really engage with grammar or syntax to speak and write at a basic level? I do feel a bit sorry for mono-linguals who struggle to write to a minimum standard in their one language.

Geamhradh · 08/08/2021 11:30

@Pumperthepumper

English isn’t everyone’s first language. Some people have additional educational needs. Some people had horrible childhoods meaning their basic education took a back seat.

Grammar pedants say they hate mistakes like ‘of’ or ‘there/your’ in the wrong place, buts it’s a lie. They fucking love it. It’s an opportunity to point out how clever they are and tut about laziness. It’s a chance to gather a tribe to look down on people, it’s their most favourite thing. That’s why so many of them point it out publicly - it’s to shame the writer, not to help them learn. If it was to help them learn they’d send a PM. It’s pathetic.

No. Language pedants say nothing of the sort. We go off for hours talking about why, historically and linguistically something happens. We find it interesting. Smug people who (as evidenced here) think they know about language rarely know as much as they think, and resort to "oooh listen to the thicko".
seasonalremarks · 08/08/2021 11:31

Well said. @Pumperthepumper