Being irritated at "would of, could of....."

[DuchessOfDisaster]

I cringe when I see this written down. Along with "defiantly" for definitely and other examples. I don't see there is ever any excuse. And the excuse that "language evolves" doesn't wash, because "to of" is not a verb and never will be no matter how language evolves. It's not the same as adopting words from other cultures, new words like selfies, or a different meaning for "sick", for example.

OK, when we say "would've", "could've" etc, it may SOUND similar, but that's no excuse either. It implies the writer has never seen "would have" etc written down, therefore doesn't read much. What did they do at school? Was this style of writing used then and never corrected?

Another cringeworthy example is the inability to differentiate between there/they're/their and your/you're.

Just why do people do it and worse, why is it excused?

I wonder where it started, though?

In certain areas it's dialectal. I remember being corrected by my mum for saying it as a child, but you hear it everywhere where I grew up, which is also where my DH is from and - as mentioned in my PP - he says it very distinctly.

I wonder where it started, though? I have only noticed it since the rise of social media. Nobody, as far as I recall, wrote it at school, or said it, nor in university. I never saw it until I began teaching which coincided with the rise of discussion boards and then Facebook

I teach in a university, and it is noticeably absent, but when I taught in a further education college it was prevalent along with witch instead of which, are instead of our, and the omission of the definite article for example "I went in library to research on industrial revolution and best book I found was by X."

So if we follow this theory to its logical conclusion, you noticed it on social media, have never seen it in the students you teach in university but did see it in the students you taught in college. So what happens between college and university? Or do the students with perfect grammar invariably, with no exceptions, leave high school and begin university? Are both the college and the university in the same geographical area?

Which subject do you teach?

@Caramellatteplease

no longer focus on or embrace the loving sentiment, but just ended up put off

If someone is put off by the punctuation rather than focusing on the emotion that says more about the reader than the writer

Why?

@Sinthie

I quite like “defiantly” because I imagine the writer carrying out their definite action with added defiance.

Yes, it's quite funny.

I don't like the could of thing either although I can see how it gets confused with could've.

But what did the word "about" ever do to us? Why do we speak to a topic or why are we excited for the Olympics? It should be "about" in both contexts.

Also hate "impact" used as a verb. Covid hasn't impacted me, it has affected me. An asteroid would impact me.

And "reach out". AAAAGGGGGHHHHH.

@Pumperthepumper

I wonder where it started, though? I have only noticed it since the rise of social media. Nobody, as far as I recall, wrote it at school, or said it, nor in university. I never saw it until I began teaching which coincided with the rise of discussion boards and then Facebook

I teach in a university, and it is noticeably absent, but when I taught in a further education college it was prevalent along with witch instead of which, are instead of our, and the omission of the definite article for example "I went in library to research on industrial revolution and best book I found was by X."

So if we follow this theory to its logical conclusion, you noticed it on social media, have never seen it in the students you teach in university but did see it in the students you taught in college. So what happens between college and university? Or do the students with perfect grammar invariably, with no exceptions, leave high school and begin university? Are both the college and the university in the same geographical area?

Which subject do you teach?

Physics.

In college, I taught science and IT vocational A levels and GCSEs which were often filled by 'second chance' students who had failed GCSEs at school or got very low grades.

The college and the university are about 15 miles apart, but the university attracts students from all over the country and overseas. The college was made up of students from the local area. It's a different target audience entirely.

So what’s your theory? Why do they do it at college but not university?

'I teach in a university, and it is noticeably absent, but when I taught in a further education college it was prevalent '

Really 🙄

It's like when people get over excited over practice and practise. Yes one is a noun and one is a verb but in the context of a sentence it is always clear what the meaning is.

Perhaps you'd like us all to talk like they did in days of yore?

'have never seen it in the students you teach in university but did see it in the students you taught in college. So what happens between college and university? Or do the students with perfect grammar invariably, with no exceptions, leave high school and begin university'

It is fascinating isn't it. Maybe the 'would ofs' fail courses, don't make it to uni and end up in Greggs flogging pasties grunting 'heres yer change' leaving the perfect 'would haves' to live happily ever after?

@JaniieJones well, according to the anecdata on this thread, it’s actually the opposite.

People with perfect grammar get the simple clerical jobs, because their CVs are considered above those with poor grammar.

People with poor grammar become the boss of several pedants, despite saying Haitch and writing ‘would of’.

Which leads me to think you’re better off without it!

@JaniieJones

'I teach in a university, and it is noticeably absent, but when I taught in a further education college it was prevalent '

Really 🙄

It's like when people get over excited over practice and practise. Yes one is a noun and one is a verb but in the context of a sentence it is always clear what the meaning is.

Perhaps you'd like us all to talk like they did in days of yore?

'have never seen it in the students you teach in university but did see it in the students you taught in college. So what happens between college and university? Or do the students with perfect grammar invariably, with no exceptions, leave high school and begin university'

It is fascinating isn't it. Maybe the 'would ofs' fail courses, don't make it to uni and end up in Greggs flogging pasties grunting 'heres yer change' leaving the perfect 'would haves' to live happily ever after?

This has really upset you, hasn't it?

You mentioned on the first page that someone once pulled you up on poor SPAG. It's okay to let it go. They can't hurt you.

@Pumperthepumper

So what’s your theory? Why do they do it at college but not university?

Because they need at least three A levels at A* or A to register on a physics degree.

Many of the students at the college I worked at (not all, but a good percentage) had very poor GCSE grades and hated any sort of writing. So the problem could have been many things:

Failed by school system
Dyslexia or similar
Family background
Or simply a case of CBA

I can, of course, only speak for the courses I teach on.

@DuchessOfDisaster but none of that can be true because you don’t see it at university. No dyslexic students, no ESOL students, no dyspraxic students, no students from a difficult background, no lazy students.

@IceLace100 I do 🙈.. it is a deciding factor on if I reply or match back . Admittedly, it greatly reduces the pool

@IceLace100

Does anyone else judge grammar when using internet dating apps?

I do

[quote Pumperthepumper]@DuchessOfDisaster but none of that can be true because you don’t see it at university. No dyslexic students, no ESOL students, no dyspraxic students, no students from a difficult background, no lazy students.[/quote]
We have all of those. But to get to university they need good grades. They will have had support at school or college to get those grades, or taken a pre-sessional course if English is not their first language. This would have helped them with any grammar or spelling issues.

As I said, the college I worked at was a totally different demographic (local students) from the students at the university I work at (from all over the country and overseas).

The vast majority of college students I taught did not go on to university anyway. They took vocational courses.

'This has really upset you, hasn't it? You mentioned on the first page that someone once pulled you up on poor SPAG. It's okay to let it go. They can't hurt you.'

No, they can't hurt me you're right. Thankyou for reassuring me . I'm pulled up on poor soag all the time, I could not give a rat's ass as luckily I have a wealth of fabulous attributes to compensate.

My point is the people wanging on about poor spag seem to be such patronising arses! It baffles me why they get so hung up on would have/of when tbh their superiority complexes are far more embarrassing than any missed comma or spag error.

@DuchessOfDisaster

I cringe when I see this written down. Along with "defiantly" for definitely and other examples. I don't see there is ever any excuse. And the excuse that "language evolves" doesn't wash, because "to of" is not a verb and never will be no matter how language evolves. It's not the same as adopting words from other cultures, new words like selfies, or a different meaning for "sick", for example.

OK, when we say "would've", "could've" etc, it may SOUND similar, but that's no excuse either. It implies the writer has never seen "would have" etc written down, therefore doesn't read much. What did they do at school? Was this style of writing used then and never corrected?

Another cringeworthy example is the inability to differentiate between there/they're/their and your/you're.

Just why do people do it and worse, why is it excused?

Exactly this, it drives me nuts! Speak properly or don't speak at all.

@Teaandscone

Teacher here. While making due allowances for dyslexic children, it’s often laziness. So often, when I point to one of the mistakes you mention, the child will be able to tell me what’s wrong. Children hate proofreading.

Would appear most do not proof read. 😬

Exactly this, it drives me nuts! Speak properly or don't speak at all.

That’s pretty racist.

@Pumperthepumper

Exactly this, it drives me nuts! Speak properly or don't speak at all.

That’s pretty racist.

How is it racist?

Because who decides what ‘speak properly’ means? What about those of us who have accents or speak in dialect?

@JaniieJones

'This has really upset you, hasn't it? You mentioned on the first page that someone once pulled you up on poor SPAG. It's okay to let it go. They can't hurt you.'

No, they can't hurt me you're right. Thankyou for reassuring me . I'm pulled up on poor soag all the time, I could not give a rat's ass as luckily I have a wealth of fabulous attributes to compensate.

My point is the people wanging on about poor spag seem to be such patronising arses! It baffles me why they get so hung up on would have/of when tbh their superiority complexes are far more embarrassing than any missed comma or spag error.

Language matters a great deal to some people :) I haven't actually seen anyone on the thread claim they have perfect SPAG, yet others have delighted in tearing them to pieces. It says more about those doing the tearing than it does the posters who have a bugbear for a specific SPAG error.

It's okay to be bothered by plummeting standards of literacy and to consider why so many people have a really poor grasp of written English imo.

Your SPAG seems absolutely fine btw, it's not like every post on a message board has to be absolutely perfect!

@JaniieJones

'This has really upset you, hasn't it? You mentioned on the first page that someone once pulled you up on poor SPAG. It's okay to let it go. They can't hurt you.'

No, they can't hurt me you're right. Thankyou for reassuring me . I'm pulled up on poor soag all the time, I could not give a rat's ass as luckily I have a wealth of fabulous attributes to compensate.

My point is the people wanging on about poor spag seem to be such patronising arses! It baffles me why they get so hung up on would have/of when tbh their superiority complexes are far more embarrassing than any missed comma or spag error.

There's nothing wrong with how you write.

Yesterday 20:00 pointythings

I hate it too. I am a foreign national, though fully bilingual. If I can get these basic things right, so should native Brits.

I disagree, pointythings. If you learn English as a foreign language in a classroom, you will be learning to write it at the same time as learning to speak it. You will be learning ‘to have’ before ‘could have’; you will be unlikely to be taught the contraction ‘could’ve’ first. Native speakers will have heard could’ve for years before learning to write, and ‘could’ve’ and ‘could of’ sound remarkably similar.

I think a lot of it is to do with people not reading for pleasure. You get a really good feel for a language just by reading and it doesn't have to be serious literature.

Again, I disagree. Some things need to be taught and understood. They are not picked up subliminally from reading. Most people who make these mistakes can read perfectly well.