AIBU to think one adult should be able to support a family with a full time job?

[Kendodd]

Talking about a normal size family, two/three children. Not talking about riches either, just an ordinary place to live and everyone well fed and clothed, all needs covered without state benefits. Any full time job as well, not just some fancy high paid thing.
I know for lots of people working really hard in full time jobs supporting their family just isn't possible on the money.

YANBU - they should be able to support a family.
YABU - they shouldn't be able to have a home and children on an unskilled job.

I'm an advocate of the four day week as a standard for everyone, so both parents would typically work 30 hours a week which should cover childcare costs and a basic standard of living even at minimum wage.

We also need to build a lot more houses with secure tenancies.

If a couple of teachers/ nurses / police can’t afford to buy a 3 bed house in an ok area in which to bring up their kids then capable people will look to other careers, at a cost to all of society. We shouldn’t underestimate the damage high house prices do to our country.

@Stanleyville

Rather than one person work and one person not why don't we aspire to all people working fewer hours? That's potentially good for all of society.

I don't think a sahp dynamic is particularly healthy when compared to an alternative of both parents caring and earning.

100pc agree. Problem is, employers don't want this.

Why not aspire to flexible contracts? Some people want/need to work longer hours (eg saving for a deposit or teenage children) whereas some need shorter hours (eg young kids, or children with special needs).

But the main problem is one of supply. Council should mandate time limits for developers, so they must get the houses built by a certain date, or the land is repossessed (to prevent building companies trickling houses in to keep profits high).

My DH works full time and we have two kids. I worked until last year full time but became burnt out and left. It has been an adjustment and budgeting is tight. It would be easier if all four of us stopped having ideas of more things to spend money on e.g. clubs, furniture, decorating. Then we might be able to continue to muddle along.

What about families where one parent works away?
Oil rigs
Long distance lorry drivers
The army
Laggers

Are these families given a pass in your judgement to have one parent not work? Or should these families also find a way to have both parents work 30 hpw?

Some of these comments are so ego centric. There are other families and situations outside of your bubbles where the parents can’t just work harder to get a promotion and more money. Families where both parents working isn’t a viable option. Families where there is only one parent so a two adult wage is not viable.

It should be possible to raise a family and have a good quality of life on one wage. It’s insane that we’ve conditioned to believe otherwise.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

What about families where one parent works away? Oil rigs Long distance lorry drivers The army Laggers

Are these families given a pass in your judgement to have one parent not work? Or should these families also find a way to have both parents work 30 hpw?

Some of these comments are so ego centric. There are other families and situations outside of your bubbles where the parents can’t just work harder to get a promotion and more money. Families where both parents working isn’t a viable option. Families where there is only one parent so a two adult wage is not viable.

It should be possible to raise a family and have a good quality of life on one wage. It’s insane that we’ve conditioned to believe otherwise.

I don't understand the comment about working away. My DH spent large chunks of the year away pre-pandemic. That didn't stop me from pursuing my own career. True, it would be difficult - perhaps impossible - to sustain two roles where a lot of travelling is required, but it is still perfectly possible for the other partner to work, just as many single parents manage to hold down a job without a partner around.

I would like to see a much better benefits system in place to support parents who cannot work due to disability - either their own or that of a child. Better support for parents who are widowed. And better enforcement to ensure that absent parents pay a fair share for their children. However, the reality is that most children have two parents, so it seems reasonable to expect that both parents will share financial responsibility for them. If they can afford to make a lifestyle choice to have one parent at home, and both partners want that set-up, then that's totally fair enough, but I don't think it's a right to live like that.

I don't understand the comment about working away. My DH spent large chunks of the year away pre-pandemic. That didn't stop me from pursuing my own career. True, it would be difficult - perhaps impossible - to sustain two roles where a lot of travelling is required, but it is still perfectly possible for the other partner to work, just as many single parents manage to hold down a job without a partner around.

The question isn’t whether the partner left at home should be able to work, it’s whether they should HAVE to work.

If they can afford to make a lifestyle choice to have one parent at home, and both partners want that set-up, then that's totally fair enough, but I don't think it's a right to live like that.

Why not? Why shouldn’t people have the right to support their family financially if they’re working full time?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

If they can afford to make a lifestyle choice to have one parent at home, and both partners want that set-up, then that's totally fair enough, but I don't think it's a right to live like that.

Why not? Why shouldn’t people have the right to support their family financially if they’re working full time?

What a strange mindset It comes down to you either earn enough or you dont.

How is it a strange mindset to believe that if an adult works full time hours, they should be able to expect that that wage should support their family?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

How is it a strange mindset to believe that if an adult works full time hours, they should be able to expect that that wage should support their family?

Because life just doesnt work like that! "I want" Erm no thats not how it works. If you are in low paid unskilled work or starting out in a career then you just wont earn enough for one person to support a family of 4 on your own. Every woman in my family for generations has worked, its a myth that women didnt work, it just wasnt recognised.

Totally agree that single/ disabled parents should get help but actually that both parents are responsible and laws on supporting DC adequately should be tightened.

It’s not about “I want”. It’s about basic human rights.

If you are in low paid unskilled work

So people in low paid unskilled work should not bother working at all? Or not have children?

What about people in low paid unskilled work who find themselves as the only adult in the home?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

It’s not about “I want”. It’s about basic human rights.

If you are in low paid unskilled work

So people in low paid unskilled work should not bother working at all? Or not have children?

What about people in low paid unskilled work who find themselves as the only adult in the home?

The reality is that one low wage is unlikely to support a family of 4 -its always been thus. Its not a new concept. The myth of the man working and the woman as SAHM. All the women I know have WOH and in some cases in it, to provide for their families. Its simply a case of womens work being unrecognised. The vast majority of families need 2 wages unless there is one high earner. I didnt say low paid workers shouldnt work but in a family then both will need to WOH. As I said previously single parents need support but actually child support laws need tightening.

Or we could acknowledge that basic housing costs have inflated massively more than salaries in the last 30-40 yrs, social housing and good quality professional private rental stocks have been denuded and stop pretending that young people's lifestyles are the cause of inflated house prices
Nobody is saying that they struggle only because of their lifestyle, we are saying that if they didn't expect the lifestyle they feel they deserve, they might find that they do ok despite the inflated house prices. After all, many do manage.

You can't control the house market, not directly, but you certainly can control how many luxuries you get.

I’m not talking about minimum wage workers expecting to go to the Maldives every year. We’re in a situation where someone on minimum wage couldn’t afford to pay “cheaper” rent and basic utilities.

How is it a strange mindset to believe that if an adult works full time hours, they should be able to expect that that wage should support their family?
The question is why are they not managing to support the family, and by supporting, we mean providing decent, not nice housing, in a not dangerous area rather than one of the nicest one in the town, having an old reliable car, rather than a new one on finance, shopping at Lidl and mean planning, making own lunches, rather than regularly topping up shopping and buying lunches, getting weekly get aways. Going camping not far away rather than a week in Spain or more, buying only necessary clothing rather than a new outfit for any occasion, and getting basic phones rather than an i-phone, even one a couple of year old.

I don't believe that anyone working FT at minimum wage, claiming tax credits can't provide the minimum to their family, I really don't. The issue is the line between 'supporting' meaning providing enough, and 'supporting' meaning wanting to give the best to your family.

It’s not that low waged people can’t have children, it’s that our society has decided that it’s appropriate for them to receive their family income from a combination of wages and state support for a few years.

The alternative options would be
a) pure market capitalism and low waged couples and single parents would rely on charity or starve
b) set a minimum wage that would allow a single person on full time minimum wage to support a family of four (and would make a single person on minimum wage extremely well off, although you could claw it back through the tax system whilst giving additional tax free allowances for dependents)
c) socialise the housing supply by capping rents, restricting purchases by people who won’t live in the home full time, or huge restocking of social housing

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I’m not talking about minimum wage workers expecting to go to the Maldives every year. We’re in a situation where someone on minimum wage couldn’t afford to pay “cheaper” rent and basic utilities.

I didnt think that you were suggesting that.

Yes someone on NMW should be able to put a roof over their head.
Shared house etc
We have all been there.
It doesnt stretch to supporting a family of 4 though without a second wage.
As I said in the past the work that women did just wasnt recognised .

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I’m not talking about minimum wage workers expecting to go to the Maldives every year. We’re in a situation where someone on minimum wage couldn’t afford to pay “cheaper” rent and basic utilities.

You seem to be surprised that a single earner on minimum wage with multiple children will struggle to support the household. It is a responsibility of both parents to support their own children, just like it is a right to have as many as you want. Rights come with responsibilities, not just endless additional rights.

For minimum wage to cover the cost of housing, it would have to be massive in the SE and other high-rent areas.
Not if we built lots of social housing.

@bunnybuggs

I think your whole post shows how massively our of touch you are with the reality and the poverty many, many people live with in the UK.

It’s so sad how worthless so many posters deem low paid workers as well as the jobs they do

@BarbaraofSeville

Nice idea, but as well as house prices making this difficult or impossible, you're comparing with a time where lifestyles were very basic compared with today.

Few children had their own bedroom, most families had no car or possibly one old car, eating out was very rare, far fewer treats and expensive days out like theme parks, no technology, almost no-one went abroad on holiday, far fewer clothes etc etc.

In areas of the country where housing would be covered, of which there are many, a lot of people wouldn't want to stick to the basic 1970s style lifestyle that would allow them to live on one salary anyway.

I was going to come on and say exactly the same thing. In the 60s and 70s lifestyles and expectations were much simpler, most of us started life with our parents' cast-off furniture, eating out may have been a curry every couple of months, a lot of socialising was done with friends at home, I recall still playing canasta as the sun came up, and so on.