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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think one adult should be able to support a family with a full time job?

265 replies

Kendodd · 07/08/2021 22:04

Talking about a normal size family, two/three children. Not talking about riches either, just an ordinary place to live and everyone well fed and clothed, all needs covered without state benefits. Any full time job as well, not just some fancy high paid thing.
I know for lots of people working really hard in full time jobs supporting their family just isn't possible on the money.

YANBU - they should be able to support a family.
YABU - they shouldn't be able to have a home and children on an unskilled job.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 08/08/2021 12:25

@notanothertakeaway

I don't agree with tax credits subsidising low wages. I think employers should pay a living wage

But I wouldn't expect one modest earner to be able to support four dependants

I disagree with wage top ups too and would like to see them gone but I don’t think it’s an on employer to pay a living wage as such. Jobs vary in needing none or a lot of skill so salary should be based on that. You can’t base a wage on living costs as some people want to live in an expensive area, work a few hours, have multiple children, a non working partner, two cars etc.
AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 08/08/2021 12:38

We cannot progress to equality if women want to be supported and as a result, fully dependant on someone else.

If it takes two people’s wages to keep a household ticking over, you’re reliant on the other person anyway.
The solution isn’t to make it so that both parents have to work full time. We should respect the role and input of the SAHP equally to the final input of the other parent. That’s the only way we will achieve equality.

MauveMagnolia · 08/08/2021 12:47

@rottd

Today it is a million. A teacher earns £35,000

One of the by products of most families having 2 working adults is house price inflation.

It's not just that though because 2 working adults struggle to afford property

I agree but if all families had stayed on 1 income house prices would not have risen as they would have been unaffordable. From the 1930s to 1970s house price inflation was much lower
MauveMagnolia · 08/08/2021 12:49

@Monkeybusinesss

I can’t believe people are still banging on about washing machines. You know washing machines are cheap these days. You know that going to the laundrette costs around £30 per week in London. No poor person could afford to go to a laundrette in this day and age, having a washing machine isn’t luxurious.
Lots of people have £20 but not £200

Bright house showed that

AuntieJoyce · 08/08/2021 12:49

@NeverTalkToStrangers

Family Income Supplement was introduced in 1970 to support the working poor. I’m not sure it’s ever been possible for a family of four to live comfortably but frugally on a single unskilled labour/minimum wage income although the current levels of housing cost have definitely made it far more difficult.

I blame Thatcher. Thirty five years on we’re still seeing the impact of right to buy.

There’s a lot of blame for Thatcher on MN but this was a hugely popular policy decision at the time and had those individuals been unable to buy they would have remained blocking social housing indefinitely

If we want to put the blame on any government my vote’s for Blair’s tax credits and immigration policy with the resulting long reaching dampening of wage inflation

nosyupnorth · 08/08/2021 13:02

Having thought about it more, I think this approach is coming at it backwards.

People should not expect to live a full life on minimum wage because people shouldn't be on minimum wage their whole life - and I don't mean everybody should go into high earning careers but that minimum wage should be for people just starting out or in very low end work, once they have experience they should be paid more. Companies are taking advantage by making millions of jobs minium wage that should be entitled to more.

transformandriseup · 08/08/2021 13:11

People should not expect to live a full life on minimum wage because people shouldn't be on minimum wage their whole life - and I don't mean everybody should go into high earning careers but that minimum wage should be for people just starting out or in very low end work, once they have experience they should be paid more

I agree with this. It doesn't help a lot companies are getting rid of middle management roles so it's becoming more difficult to gradually step up. My child would probably need to be in secondary school before I can commit to my managers work schedule even if I already have the skills to do her job.

MotionActivatedDog · 08/08/2021 13:18

The reality is that lots of people will spend their entire working life earning minimum wage for various reasons. Minimum wage should be enough to maintain your own life, for life. Housing, food, heat, clothing, toiletries, travel to work or to see your mum, and the odd night out, day out, trip to the cinema is really not an unreasonable expectation to have for a very basic life.

LakieLady · 08/08/2021 13:35

If washing machines cost 4K now I can guarantee very few people would have them. And if they did they would rent them

Like they used to with tv's!

I left home in 1975, and got my first washing machine in 1988. And it was £12, secondhand, several years old and lasted me 6 years before it gave up the ghost. Things have got cheaper, relative to wages, but they don't last as long.

I didn't have a single piece of new furniture until 1991. And most of my furniture is secondhand, from junk shops or auctions. Only my sofas and bed were bought new.

NeverTalkToStrangers · 08/08/2021 13:37

I agree with MotionActivatedDog. Minimum wage should be enough for a single adult to live a reasonable life on, including a week at Butlins and an occasional meal out at the local curry house or whatever. But I think it’s reasonable for the state to kick in for a few years in order to help minimum wage earners bring up children.

MotionActivatedDog · 08/08/2021 13:41

@MotionActivatedDog

The reality is that lots of people will spend their entire working life earning minimum wage for various reasons. Minimum wage should be enough to maintain your own life, for life. Housing, food, heat, clothing, toiletries, travel to work or to see your mum, and the odd night out, day out, trip to the cinema is really not an unreasonable expectation to have for a very basic life.
I’ll add to that list: savings. People on minimum wage should be able to stick a bit away for a rainy day. Washing machines break down, house moves need to be paid for etc
LakieLady · 08/08/2021 14:11

@Antsinyourpanta

£70k down south ie london area. Well. It's a studio if your lucky.

Confused really?

South-east, but 50 miles from London, and the cheapest property on Rightmove here (apart from retirement flats) is £150k for a one-bed former council flat on a fairly rough estate.

Studio flats to rent? A gobsmacking £895 a month.

It would probably be cheaper to buy the first flat than rent the second.

Antsinyourpanta · 08/08/2021 14:12

The reality is that lots of peoplewillspend their entire working life earning minimum wage for various reasons. Minimum wage should be enough to maintain your own life, for life. Housing, food, heat, clothing, toiletries, travel to work or to see your mum, and the odd night out, day out, trip to the cinema is really not an unreasonable expectation to have for a very basic life.*

I think that's reasonable,but its different to supporting yourself, a partner and 2 or 3 children. (Has Minimum wage been enough for this in previous generations? Or did it not exist?)

MotionActivatedDog · 08/08/2021 14:20

Minimum wage only came into existence in 1999 so 22 years ago.

I agree one full time minimum wage shouldn’t really be expected to support a family of 4 or 5.

LakieLady · 08/08/2021 14:32

@KingdomScrolls

The thing is when only one income is needed, it's so often women who give up work and that causes all kinds of other imbalances. You could live on one salary in the seventies but people would also turn a blind eye to a man giving his wife a slap, consent within marriage was assumed, women were expected to run around after their husbands and there was little financial independence if you wanted to leave.
It used to be that way because the woman's salary was generally lower than the man's, so for them to give up work had less impact on household income.

One would have hoped that, 50 years after the Equal Pay Act, that would no longer be the case, but average pay for women is still less than for men.

LakieLady · 08/08/2021 14:34

@Antsinyourpanta

* The reality is that lots of peoplewillspend their entire working life earning minimum wage for various reasons. Minimum wage should be enough to maintain your own life, for life. Housing, food, heat, clothing, toiletries, travel to work or to see your mum, and the odd night out, day out, trip to the cinema is really not an unreasonable expectation to have for a very basic life.*

I think that's reasonable,but its different to supporting yourself, a partner and 2 or 3 children. (Has Minimum wage been enough for this in previous generations? Or did it not exist?)

For minimum wage to cover the cost of housing, it would have to be massive in the SE and other high-rent areas.
RickJames · 08/08/2021 14:39

I was working with a Works Council manager in a big German firm, a couple of years ago. We were looking at payslips and I was translating them into English for her.

It was very surprising. The heavily unionised manual workers were subsidised for everything from having to change clothes before and after a shift, free canteen food to unsociable hours. In effect they paid no tax because it was made up by the subsidies, 3000€ was pretty much 3000€ take home. The white collar workers were taxed to the bone with no subsidies. Despite earning technically, a lot less, the manual labourers were coming out with a good wage that you easily run a family on plus they would be paying low wage rates for child care etc.

So that's my observation. In the 1970's in the UK unionisation protected the wages that manual workers did earn and therefore, with a bit of budgeting, you could run a family on one wage. Nowadays, employment is a bit of a free for all with 0 hours contracts and stuff. Although, there are top-ups and tax credits...

But ultimately, rent and house prices are ridiculous now and not in step with wages so I think even the most amazing union wouldn't achieve much.

YANBU but I think its just the way things are now.

AllTheSingleLadiess · 08/08/2021 14:43

A full time minimum wage job should be able to support one adult without top ups.

MurielSpriggs · 08/08/2021 15:45

For minimum wage to cover the cost of housing, it would have to be massive in the SE and other high-rent areas.

Which would just put house prices up!

bunnybuggs · 08/08/2021 16:01

I bought my first house (terraced for £7,500) in 1978 - as a single parent with a 3 year old. I borrowed twice my salary (computer programming ) of £3500 and paid a deposit from my savings
In those days - there were high interest rates, high tax rates and no help in the way of tax credits, subsidised childcare etc. As I single parent I did get a bit extra family allowance/child benefit and a slightly increased tax personal allowance.
I moved in with second hand castoffs for furniture and used coats on the bed. I could not afford a holiday and my income was equal to my outgoings (including childminder) so no fancy car either,
It did get better but it was tough for a good few years.

I cannot see anyone tolerating that kind of life these days and quite rightly too. I had no choice and my life was not that differant or harder than anyone else trying to get by at that time - no thought of unfairness or envy.

OP - it is nice to dream of a world of work where one income could support a family BUT no-one would give up their holidays and fancy cars /houses to just get by (which is what that life would be like)
People's expectations are now way too high

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 08/08/2021 16:20

@bunnybuggs

I bought my first house (terraced for £7,500) in 1978 - as a single parent with a 3 year old. I borrowed twice my salary (computer programming ) of £3500 and paid a deposit from my savings In those days - there were high interest rates, high tax rates and no help in the way of tax credits, subsidised childcare etc. As I single parent I did get a bit extra family allowance/child benefit and a slightly increased tax personal allowance. I moved in with second hand castoffs for furniture and used coats on the bed. I could not afford a holiday and my income was equal to my outgoings (including childminder) so no fancy car either, It did get better but it was tough for a good few years. I cannot see anyone tolerating that kind of life these days and quite rightly too. I had no choice and my life was not that differant or harder than anyone else trying to get by at that time - no thought of unfairness or envy.

OP - it is nice to dream of a world of work where one income could support a family BUT no-one would give up their holidays and fancy cars /houses to just get by (which is what that life would be like)
People's expectations are now way too high

I would happily, happily live this way for a few years to have a mortgage that was two times my annual salary. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t!
AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 08/08/2021 16:25

OP - it is nice to dream of a world of work where one income could support a family BUT no-one would give up their holidays and fancy cars /houses to just get by (which is what that life would be like)
People's expectations are now way too high

This has made me quite angry. Most people I know don’t have nice holidays abroad or fancy cars. They’re all teachers, nurses, police officers, council workers, call centre workers whose rent is so high they can’t afford these luxuries and don’t even have the choice to give them up in order to save a house deposit.

MotionActivatedDog · 08/08/2021 17:46

it is nice to dream of a world of work where one income could support a family BUT no-one would give up their holidays and fancy cars /houses to just get by

What are you talking about?? Plenty of people don’t have holidays or fancy cars or houses on two incomes!

Monkeybusinesss · 08/08/2021 17:54

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken
Yeah ain’t that the truth.
If Someone said you might have to sleep on a coat (likely…) charity shops sells sheets, but that’s by the by. I would JUMP at the chance to have a mortgage.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 08/08/2021 18:05

[quote Monkeybusinesss]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken
Yeah ain’t that the truth.
If Someone said you might have to sleep on a coat (likely…) charity shops sells sheets, but that’s by the by. I would JUMP at the chance to have a mortgage.[/quote]
I’ve already got sheets and a full house of furniture. A mortgage 2x my wage (or my husband’s) would be a fucking dream!