What has really changed since Jamie Oliver's school meals?

[UndertheCedartree]

Just wondering really if much has changed. I didn't have DC in 2005. I mean I remember the horrible looking school lunch and my DD's school lunches are a lot better. But I still don't think they are overly healthy and have quite a lot of processed food. My DD is on FSM so I am very grateful for them, of course. Is it mainly a funding issue why they aren't better?

I just want to know what @RaindropsonPiglets does for a living!

Everything got much worse because he didn't understand the real problem.

[quote UndertheCedartree]@idontlikealdi - my DD is partial to a JP and cheese! Think she had it quite a lot in Reception but eats other things now, thank goodness!

A couple of the things I'd like to see changed - they have sausages on the menu every week with either chips or hash browns - I'd rather something less processed. I'd like to see less cake for dessert and more fruit salad.[/quote]
Whilst I agree fruit would be much tastier, describing what is served as cake is a huge stretch. I've worked in a few schools across two counties and the 'cake' is basically a bread because it has so little sugar. There are usually leftovers (says something if children don't even want seconds of pudding) and if they are put in the staffroom they're left uneaten.

I think it depended on the school and probably still does. I was in my first teaching job in 2005 and the food was absolutely fantastic, the school was on BBC news, got invited to meet Prince Charles (I think) and so on. But many/most of the students were from backgrounds and cultures where they were used to having healthy home-cooked meals out of school so it wasn't such a leap for them to have it in school too. They did moan about losing the veggie pasty though!

I then moved counties a year or two later and found myself with a menu that for one day a fortnight every single hot meal choice was pasta. But they still ticked the boxes somehow, possibly because they didn't really do puddings. I was so irrationally gutted that I couldn't go and buy a lovely lunch every day.

Our towns are reasonably good (all the primaries we looked at seem to use the same catering company). Every day there's a main option, a veggie option and a jacket potato option plus pudding. Parents book online the week before. My dad (works in lots of the local primaries) says the portions are generous.

The choices aren't as adventurous as they are at DS2s nursery but they are filling reasonably healthy, and stuff most DC will eat (bolognese, sweet and sour chicken, macaroni cheese etc.)

I'm honestly not surprised Jamie Oliver's restaurants are failing. The very generation that he effed up school dinners for are now part of his target market.

We have long memories Jamie. You took our Turkey Twizzlers, we'll take our custom to Gino D'Acampo down the road

@LtDansleg - oh really? In what way?

@Valeriekat - how did it get worse and what was the real problem?

@JaggedLittlePilI - I have tasted one of the cakes and it is proper cake (low sugar, I'm sure) and my DD is very partial to it. Although I'm sure it meets certain nutrition standards I don't think lots of refined flour is good or cake/flapjack seen as an every day dessert.

@heyha - I find it so strange how different the offer of school meals are in different schools. I've looked at menus at other schools and heard descriptions on here and my DD's school is definitely one of the better ones. The staff enjoy the meals too.

@Camomila - sounds very similar to my DD's school. There are 3 options of main meal (one is veggie) plus jacket potatoes. Unfortunately due to Covid they no longer have the salad bar - maybe it will return in September? There is dessert and fruit too. It used to be 3 weeks of different menus but reduced to 2 since Covid. The portions are good sizes too.

I suppose as you say they look for things most DC will eat but even just changing the desserts a bit could make it healthier.

@sayanythingelse Although the Turkey twizzlers looked grim!!

The problem with the school dinners was that while some were shockingly bad those that did in house catering were actually quite good. In trying to bring the worse ones up to standard all schools needed to invest in equipment (think panini makers for example) that took money away from salaries for staff and food. The children didn't like what was offered so wouldn't eat it. It turned out that they liked chips! The independent school canteens became uneconomical. The in house caterers were and food services came in. Jamie caused more problems than he solved in my experience. It was throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Interesting. Think Valerie's post proves it was more complicated than he thought. Very telling that he hasn't come back to re-address the issue?

Anecdotally (a friend is on the Board of Trustees for a large education academy group), many schools did attempt to make meals healthier but it resulted in a significant proportion of children rejecting the food because it wasn’t what they were used to at home - which is a huge problem where FSM children are concerned, if they don’t eat the lunch which could be their main meal of the day

That's one of the saddest things I've ever read. The idea that parents are feeding their children such shite that they can't tolerate even vaguely decent stuff is heartbreaking.

I guess it varies. The primary my son attends seem to have good meals.

There is always lots of choice, vegetables available and salad bar where children help themselves.

My son enjoys his lunches and seems to eat a good variety. That said, he isn't in the least bit fussy and enjoys vegetables. I know a couple of his classmates don't have lunches because they are fussy and won't eat anything that's available.

He's just finished Y2 and we are going to pay next year so he can continue to have lunches.

I teach in a secondary and the food there isn't brilliant to be honest. Pasta pots/wedges/pizza/average sandwiches is about it. The kids seem to enjoy it though!

I think that people who knock them probably dont eat that many

I do, or rather did. I used to take a hot meal at work if there were some left over or order one on days I hadn't brought from home. Over cooked soggy pasta and veg, bland tasteless sauces, poor quality meats such as dry turkey burgers and the same chicken slices that makes up every chicken dish is watery and oddly textured. Dc complain of the same and their school uses a different provider.

I was at secondary school between 2002 and 2008. We had always had a salad bar, healthy options and pasta bar. The difference post Jamie was that chips weren't an option apart from on Fridays and they stopped any crisps, chocolate bars etc so all the veg Dodgers swapped to packed lunches or bought crisps etc from the corner shop before school instead! Funnily enough looking back though chocolate bars weren't allowed you could still buy a whopping great big fresh fried chocolate doughnut filled with choc sauce!

He made money and feck all changed.........except he put on a bit of weight too.

My school dinners in both primary and secondary school were absolutely amazing. All home cooked and healthy.

At primary we had no choice, it was what it was, but it was always lovely.

Now there seems to be contracted out dining, all local schools get the same shite. They get a small choice, which I think results in the majority of the children choosing the less healthy option daily.

Heavily carb laden. And very random concoctions. Pizza and mashed potatoes is one I hear of often.

But… I’m still too lazy to make lunches daily so, pizza and mash it is

Since covid has prevented kids from eating in the hall, all our school meals have been grab bags that they can eat in the classroom, so there's been nothing hot that hasn't been easily transportable. School doesn't have a kitchen either, so they always have to ship it from another school.
It's always pizza on a Monday, then, for the rest of the week, a selection of sausage roll, quiche, paninis, pasty type items, breakfast wraps, fish finger butties or something similar, jacket potato with tuna or cheese, or a sandwich.
They'll get a piece of fruit, veg sticks, a yoghurt and a cookie/cake with it.

The meals were so much better pre-covid, although, admittedly, did contain a lot of chips.

My daughter has just finished reception.... she's loved school dinners! Her school seem to do reasonably healthy meals and a nice variety of things.... the only thing she's not mad about is Fish and Chip Friday... every sodding week... surely there's alternative fish based meals they could do if they want to stick with the traditional fish on a Friday thing!

My ds has nice school dinners - veg every day as the side then pizza, bubble salmon, sausages, pasta, jacket potatoes etc as the options on various days. I don't mind them having a cake or flapjack as desert. They have fruit or vegetables for snack at break time. Quite often they're given a piece of leftover fruit or veg on their way out at the end of the day.

Children need calories, they burn them off at an alarming rate learning, running and playing all day. Also, for some children it might be the only decent food they get in a day, much more important that they are given something to put in their stomachs. Fruit salad, while healthy is not that satisfying if nobody makes you dinner that evening.

I balance by having light teas with plenty of fruit, veg and salad and lean protein. Much easier for me to prepare after work as well!

I worked at one of the schools used on his programme for the pilot scheme. The school changed the menu back to over processed, fatty foods as soon as he left because apparently the children were too hungry. I have worked at schools with amazing food though. Not at all impressed with my son's (reception) - usually burger and chips, chicken nuggets and chips or pasta.

I do a mix of things in a Primary school. Recently I've been supervising the lunch hall.

The food meets the standards required eg puddings are sweetened with fruit, fried food once a week etc.

For KS1 (universal fsm) I estimate that I throw about 75% of the veg/salad in the bin and a varying amount of the protein/carbs - I'd say on average 20%, mostly the known choosy eaters (I'm not privy to all the children's info so don't presume that all choosy eaters are NT) and a small number of very slow eaters. We do our best to encourage the children to eat but we have a strict half an hour for them to eat and leave so we can clean up and get ready for KS2.

Children crying over a plate of food they don't like and won't touch happens (don't talk to me about the day they put stuffing in the roast chicken roll) with the child usually telling us that they told their parents/carers they don't like it (take that with whatever size pinch of salt you choose). We are not going to try and force a child to eat and the school doesn't ask us to but we do praise trying new things and having a go.

Since the portions are calculated to feed the average needs of a child anywhere from 4 to 11 - the kitchen staff do skew this a bit - plus choosiness (whatever it's cause), some of the children are undoubtably hungry by the time they go home and some when they enter the classroom for afternoon lessons.

We throw much less food away for KS2 as most of them only have it because they like it. I used to be in favour of FSM for all but now I think, on balance, I am not in favour of universal FSM for even KS1. I do belive the threshold for FSM should be greatly lowered so more can get it or perhaps a voucher scheme that can be used for school meals or food shopping.

Whatever we do, with all the good intentions in the world, schools trying to feed 100s of children may not be best placed to get individual children to eat at all, never mind healthily. I say this a someone who got FSM as a teen and was profoundly greatful for them as they were almost my only source of vegetables.