@frumpety you're absolutely right, because the most sick/disabled are the ones needing appointments most often and least able to pay!
Another issue is people thinking the NHS is free.
I'd agree with that - but would add that politicians etc also act as if we should be on our knees with gratitude "cos it's free!" As if they're personally paying for it for us!
@spinningspaniels that would increase the likelihood of people NOT seeking treatment with early symptoms and then needing more expensive treatment further down the road - or not a they'd be dead! There's a saving! It would be punitive to those with chronic conditions like asthma
of the NHS (marvellous though it can be) doing you a favour, rather than providing a service.
Exactly
I find the NHS adoration tends to be amongst the young. Once they’ve actually used it for anything serious or seen it neglect/kill a relative through piss-poor care, they realize that a taxpayer-funded service has limitations.
Yes I think those who are young, fit and relatively healthy are largely unaware of the issues as they aren't personally experiencing it
@wonkylegs but that's one practice and one condition. Surely you can see that's a tiny sample? I've lived all over Uk and overseas and the experiences I've had with GP practices were pretty much similarly bad across the Uk, miles better overseas for multiple conditions
There is plenty of money it's just in the wrong place.
That doesn't surprise me in the least. I am also in Scotland
@Poppitt58 Germany is one of the countries I experienced too, far better system in terms of quality of care and being able to just make an appointment with a specialist yourself
There are so many shirkers who play the system by going off on long term sick leave and then returning for the required period of time and then going off again when the finance clock resets
I have witnessed this for the past ten years
This is something I have heard from ex colleagues too. Major issue.
All that said the question I always ask on such threads of those saying other systems are better but you have to pay upfront -
What if a patient CAN'T pay upfront? The homeless, the poor that are not yet in receipt of benefits or who have slipped through the net?
What happens to those people in these systems?
Often pps simply don't know as they're not in that position themselves
I was constantly fobbed off and actually laughed at in one appointment.
Yep! I've experienced that, I've literally been laughed at on multiple occasions when it's turned out much further down the road I was bloody right!
No apology EVER received!
@Becca19962014 that's absolutely disgraceful!
@PTW1234 I agree the appalling lack of use of modern tech is utterly baffling! Hell they appear to be stuck in the bloody 90's! Pre internet! With all the moving around I've done it's ludicrous that every time I get a new GP it takes MONTHS for my medical history to reach the new gp and very often there are important parts missing!
What really annoys me are the number of NHS staff who think they are providing a free service and tell you so when you attend an appointment.
Yep! Or at least act that way! As if you should be on your knees and doffing your cap at them JUST for a phone appointment
I don't think free healthcare for everyone is sustainable
Well you clearly aren't even reading the few posts above yours
ITS NOT FREE
It is free at the point of use because we ALL pay for it before that point in taxation
Anybody who votes Tory but can't afford private healthcare absolutely blows my mind.
Don't even get me started!
Anyone who isn't independently wealthy and votes Tory utterly bewilders me!
I’m sure he would argue that the yearly
£119,960 Income tax
and £9,879 National insurance he pays on his 300K salary more than covers his contribution to the NHS.
That appears to have been typed oddly and so difficult to bold but well said
Beware astroturfing.
Absolutely!!
@vivainsomnia I think you are talking about type 2 diabetes and the current stance that it’s caused by obesity/unhealthy lifestyle. For starters if that were the ONLY cause a lot more people would have it! There is starting to be significant research coming out that indicates that there is likely a genetic factor, possibly with ageing as a factor in triggering it. I’ve people with type 2 diabetes in my family. 2 of them are slim, sporty types who eat healthily and always have, explain that! They’ve experienced hcps disbelieving they are diabetic or that they have type 2.
Obesity is far more complex than people simply being “greedy”.
In my own family on one side I have noticed a pattern whereby we’re all slim no matter what we eat/do unless we have a full term pregnancy. The men and the women who don’t have a full term pregnancy remain slim. Those of us who’ve had babies have easily lost the baby weight and returned to a slim and healthy weight within a year of having the first/only baby. After that year we start to gain weight despite not changing dietary or exercise habits and struggle to lose the weight even if we cut right back on calorie intake and exercise more. The older women upon reaching menopause also experience other symptoms and are ultimately diagnosed with a rare thyroid disorder, once this has been diagnosed and they are on the medication for it the weight falls off. Something OTHER than simply “eating too much” is going on there - and I strongly suspect it is affecting me too, but I CANNOT get even one hcp to even do the relatively simple (and not massively expensive) blood test to check if I have this condition. Even though they KNOW it is in my family and is genetic.
I am sure mine is not the only family with this condition and that there are likely other conditions affecting other patients and families that are being missed.
I can also well imagine the posters who’ve commented on obesity/diabetes being “self inflicted” are of a similar type to the hcps I have experienced who literally blame EVERYTHING on my weight even when it patently has sod all to do with the reason I’m seeing them! When lockdown started I had personal experience of phone appointments cancelling out this issue. I had a medical issue arise that I’d had before and made an appointment. In the past I was basically blamed for it due to being overweight. This time a dr who didn’t know me and because it was a phone appointment couldn’t see I was overweight and the result was I FINALLY got a correct diagnosis and the treatment prescribed actually worked. Prejudiced hcps is very much an issue.
Weight prejudices
Racism
Sexism
Class snobbery
Are all areas me and those I know have experienced as preventing them getting a correct diagnosis and treatment in primary care especially.
Poor co-ordination and organisation are definitely also an issue. I have severe ocd and had a full on breakdown 15 years ago. I received excellent care from the crisis team but when I was moved onto the “regular” community team there was a huge gap in level of care, plus there was not the co-ordination in treatment that is supposed to be the best course of action for ocd which is a combination of medication that works, cbt, and psychoanalysis with supporting practical therapy. At no point in the last 15 years has that ever occurred for me. I went back to working full time as a single mum under immense pressures within 6 months of the breakdown mainly out of feeling shame for both being ill and being on benefits. I struggled on for almost 3 years with little to no support other than medication because the therapy side of things is only available mon-fri 8-5. So anybody working full time and juggling childcare etc cannot access it. I honestly believe IF I had received a co-ordinated and implemented treatment plan I could access at this time I wouldn’t have had another breakdown and I would still be well enough to work.
It’s the lack of understanding/acknowledgment that getting and keeping people healthy is not only better for the people concerned but also for the country that astounds me. The cognitive dissonance between not providing sufficient preventive/maintenance healthcare while simultaneously demonising the sick and disabled for being unable to work and on benefits!
Writing bad letters and getting dates wrong isn't covid.
You’re absolutely right.
Dd and I had the experience of (long before COVID) receiving letters telling us the date and times of specialist appointments that were WRITTEN AND POSTED AFTER the date the appointment had taken place! Now I’m many things but time traveler ain’t one of em!!
On one occasion dd received one envelope containing 2 letters with 2 different dates in 2 different locations 30 miles apart for the same orthotics appointment!
The attitude too often beggars belief and is not pragmatic.
Precisely the problem!
you have matrons and the likes swanning about doing fuckall paitent care, while we are run ragged. Get these out of offices and onto the floor.
I agree with this too. Ludicrous that people trained for and paid for providing patient care aren’t doing so
her blood tests are indicating she doesn't require it.
NO JUST NO!
The nhs ranges for things like thyroid disease are often far too broad in terms of what is “acceptable” and those ranges/levels are not regarded as “acceptable” in any other system. It’s a massaging of figures to ignore and gaslight sufferers of such conditions and in financial terms alone it’s stupid! Because all it means is kicking the can down the road and leads to patients suffering UNnecessarily and requiring more extensive and more expensive treatment and support in the future
It’s a joke!! A farce!
no the point is the NHS normal range is incorrect succinct summary of the above
If you are a GP then no wonder you are so defensive as you are part of the problem.
Increasingly the case unfortunately
@RosesAndHellebores totally agree about unprofessional conduct and conversation, including but not limited to the constant complaining and expecting patients to ignore poor treatment and the lengthy wait for appointments and be stupidly grateful that they DEIGN to see us at all! One appointment I had completely unsolicited by me I learned the nurses contraceptive choices and reasons and all about her shitty (frankly waste of space from sounds of things) boyfriend! I am NOT interested in such things and I find it very unprofessional and discomforting. It also distracted her to the point she had to do the procedure again to MY pain and discomfort (smear test)
It's also smaller things like a pp mentioned being called "love" or "darlin" or even being addressed by my first name - and even a shortening of my name I don't even go by! Without my invitation or consent. It's plain rude! It makes me lack confidence in their ability to do the job or in their professionalism as a whole.
Seriously if you're an hcp that does this crap - cut it out! Deal with and speak to patients professionally and courteously and more importantly certainly don't be blethering to the point you can't do the job!