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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask your thoughts on the NHS

364 replies

Bumblecattabbybee · 05/08/2021 08:46

Don't get me wrong. I love and totally support the NHS. But the way it is right now just doesn't seem to be working as well as it should, and people are getting really sick, not getting treatment they need, often unable to even see a GP in good time when they have serious symptoms, and having to wait months for appointments for treatment. The whole thing seems to be falling apart.

Another issue is that a lot of the time, people don't really feel comfortable or free to use the NHS without judgement. The amount of times on here I've seen people listing some serious and scary symptoms that they or their child has and questioning whether it's okay to go to A&E/the GP. I've also regularly seen people criticising others who were in A&E/the GP for symptoms they didn't consider serious enough.

When I started working abroad, the difference really hit me. When I was sick or had a small injury or problem, I wouldn't go to the doctor because I was so worried about wasting their time, and I found that other British expats were the same. We have had it drilled into us that unless our sickness is of a certain severity or we seriously think we might have a serious, life threatening problem, or until a problem has got to the point where it's seriously affecting our wellbeing/mental health/quality of life and we can't cope anymore, we don't the go to the doctor because it's seen as a waste of NHS time, money and resources.

All my non-British friends here thought this was absolutely ridiculous - the way they see it is, when you're sick, you need to go to a doctor. You don't take risks. You don't put it off because you're afraid of wasting the doctor's time. This isn't how it should be with healthcare. You just go. The risk is NEVER worth it. Whereas I recently read an article about how this issue of people not wanting to waste doctor's time is a genuine issue in the UK - especially among older people, who end up really unwell because of their reluctance to see a GP when they first experienced symtoms.

A close relative of mine was recently diagnosed with cancer and luckily they're going to be okay, but the two issues above meant that they almost weren't. Firstly, the pressure to not waste NHS time meant that symptoms weren't investigated as soon as they appeared because relative felt the need to give it time, not make a fuss, see if things got better on their own. By the time they realised it was actually serious enough to warrant use of NHS time, it took SO long to get an appointment to see a GP. Weeks. So I've been thinking about this a lot recently - what a close call it was.

I used to be so proud of the NHS and in many ways I still am, but the above two issues really, really scare me. And from what I've seen, it's just getting worse and worse. I recently heard of someone who was given an appointment for a hospital procedure for a date at the beginning of 2023! I constantly hear of people waiting weeks for a GP appointment, and in some cases, a period of weeks can mean the difference between dealing with a small problem or a big one, dealing with mild symptoms or serious ones, and even be a case of life and death.

Here, I have to pay for heath insurance but I know that should I have any health issue, I can see a doctor that day, have tests that day, scans that day, if we can't get it all done that day then I'll come back tomorrow, and I never need to question whether it's serious enough to waste a doctor's time on because there's more a sense of, the doctor is providing me with a service which I am paying for, whereas the NHS always felt more like a privilege to use. But I can't help feeling this huge injustice over the idea of healthcare being a paid service in this way, and this scares me too.

Is there a solution? What do you think? I'm just curious about other people's experiences and thoughts.

OP posts:
Susannahmoody · 05/08/2021 16:57

Why do people always preface this by saying 'Don't get me wrong, I love the NHS, but... '

Confused

You wouldn't say that about other public services? You'll allowed to criticise something that you pay a FORTUNE for in taxes.

Zotter · 05/08/2021 16:57

Continued from my comment above.

AIBU to ask your thoughts on the NHS
Zotter · 05/08/2021 16:59

You'll allowed to criticise something that you pay a FORTUNE for in taxes.

Hear you, though I note private profit based healthcare model would cost individual more.

BigWoollyJumpers · 05/08/2021 17:03

Underfunded?

AIBU to ask your thoughts on the NHS
ActonSquirrel · 05/08/2021 17:05

@BigWoollyJumpers

Underfunded?
Exactly. I'm tired of seeing people saying tories underfunding of the NHS is why the service of poor. It is money wasted on things we do not need such as managers on 6 figure salaries.
Zotter · 05/08/2021 17:05

U.K. % of GDP spent on healthcare flatlined since 2008 whilst medical care costs, medicines, equipment etc increased further, plus growing older population. So as said underfunded.

AIBU to ask your thoughts on the NHS
Zotter · 05/08/2021 17:08

Yes, as your table shows underfunded.

“Of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).” ONS, 2017.

JustAnother0ldMan · 05/08/2021 17:08

I think the NHS is great, close relative had a cancer diagnosis last week ago and has surgery to remove a tumour this week

MercyBooth · 05/08/2021 17:14

@RosesAndHellebores Whats your opinion of things like this.

twitter.com/sbattrawden/status/1416906610652364803?s=20

NotPersephone · 05/08/2021 17:14

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ActonSquirrel · 05/08/2021 17:21

[quote NotPersephone]**@ActonSquirrel* yep, and when Brown brought us slap bang into the European average, productivity declined - and the onky* discernible change was a massive pay rise for NHS staff. (Also “chronically and historically underpaid” according to them).

You could cram the entire GDP into the maw of the NHS and it would still demand more and screech about underfunding - even (as now) with the consultants’ car park full of Jags and Mercs.

The NHS doesn’t even do irony well.[/quote]
Chronically underpaid?!

The starting salary for a brand new nurse is £24,907. There aren't many jobs when the starting salary is that high.

Intercity225 · 05/08/2021 17:27

I have seen people annoyed that they cannot get a GP appointment to check if they have earwax

I rang up the audiology clinic to make an appointment for micro suction. They flatly refused to see me, saying from my symptoms, I could have an ear infection or perforated ear drum - I had to go to see my GP!

SchrodingersImmigrant · 05/08/2021 17:31

I mdant what i said at the beginning. Everyone use "Health service" instead of nhs. See how that feels without the emotional baggage atyached to the known name

knitnerd90 · 05/08/2021 17:33

You can't simply compare nursing to what other jobs might pay as a starting salary. You need to look at what other jobs requiring a similar level of education pay, at the conditions of work, and at the career progression.

The UK has a nursing shortage in part because of failure to retain nurses. They quit. In some cases they quit to move abroad as the pay and conditions are better. The conditions are bad in part because there aren't enough nurses. That's what says that NHS nurses are underpaid.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 05/08/2021 17:34

The starting salary for a brand new nurse is £24,907. There aren't many jobs when the starting salary is that high.

I always thought it's like 12k the way people talk about it and mentions of food banks. Then I found out and am gobsmacked at how 24k is considered so low a food bank voucher can be issued tbh. But I guess that's a different topic

marmaladehound · 05/08/2021 17:35

I am an HCP and have worked in the NHS for 22 years. Pre pandemic the NHS was hanging on a thread, now I agree it's broken. There was no way such a large underfunded organisation was going to cope with something as huge as this pandemic and the multi faceted health problems it's presented.

Access to health care is atrocious on many levels, the worst one been mental health. But also primary care, secondary care, cancer care is variable.

Yes the NHS has been massively unfunded and a very low % of GDP is spent on the NHS compared to similar countries. The impact on a even more severely underfunded social service system has had an enormous impact on the NHS.

But as well as the underfunding then system is totally and utterly inefficient on many levels, from basic care to procurement, to the many many layers of management that exist in the NHS. It really needs a total overhaul!

Pretty much most HCPs are depleted. We are trained to deliver a standard of care that we now just simply cannot do and it's incredibly frustrating. We can all pretty much see what needs to happen but there are not enough resources now when demand exceeds supply in a way that it now does.

As well as a total overhaul to create a more efficient system it needs more money, a higher % of GDP needs to be spent on the NHS and social services. But we need to pay higher taxes to fund this or the likelihood is that the NHS will need to be privatised. I still believe in the NHS, but it needs to be radically changed.

NotPersephone · 05/08/2021 17:38

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marmaladehound · 05/08/2021 17:39

[quote NotPersephone]**@ActonSquirrel* yep, and when Brown brought us slap bang into the European average, productivity declined - and the onky* discernible change was a massive pay rise for NHS staff. (Also “chronically and historically underpaid” according to them).

You could cram the entire GDP into the maw of the NHS and it would still demand more and screech about underfunding - even (as now) with the consultants’ car park full of Jags and Mercs.

The NHS doesn’t even do irony well.[/quote]
Many medical consultants also work privately. Their salaries are rarely just their NHS one.

notacooldad · 05/08/2021 17:40

I dont think it is perfect but I am grateful we have it tbh.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/08/2021 17:45

Thoughts?

Completely unfit for purpose.

I've never had a single satisfactory experience, or one that was fully resolved and not just left hanging with a shrug of the shoulders. That's across several disciplines. Mental Health (a black art, admittedly), endocrinology, gastro, you name it.

Dismissive doctors with no interpersonal skills. Psychiatrists who are apparently science-resistant, accumulate patient complaints like I eat hot-dinners but still merrily plod on making the lives of their charges actively worse rather than better. Misdiagnoses galore, referrals for completely inappropriate treatments, reports that are so laughably detached from reality you wonder if they have their patients mixed up, and so on.

They nearly killed my mother by refusing to acknowledge that she was doubled over in agony due to a twisted bowel and dismissed her telling her it was an IBS flare-up, despite her returning three times over the course of 48 hours.

They left my Grandfather to die, half-naked, gasping for breath, completely unattended to for hours.

Destroyed my partners menstrual cycle, her confidence, and her libido by foisting an IUD on her that she neither wanted nor requested, but was told in no uncertain terms that she wasn't leaving the building without having fitted, and then proceeded to totally arse the fitting up, leaving her in agony for weeks until they finally relented and had it removed.

Never able to see the same GP twice, that's if whatever the problem is hasn't resolved itself in the three fucking weeks it takes to get a scheduled appointment.

Being referred to a specialist eye clinic because of an obvious and debilitating eye issue, only for the appointment to take two years to materialise, in which time the issue had resolved itself, only to be given a row and spoken to like a naughty toddler by an utter witch of a nurse for 'wasting their time'. Yeah, how about the two fucking years of my life you lot just wasted eh?

NHS can fuck off. Total waste of time.

NotPersephone · 05/08/2021 17:48

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marmaladehound · 05/08/2021 17:52

[quote NotPersephone]@marmaladehound my DH’s NHS salary is just shy of £130k. Many people criticize him for being so open about what he is actually paid, preferring to maintain the illusion of penury - it’s really dishonest.

Is he worth it? Yes. Is he underpaid? Not at all.[/quote]
I'm not sure I agree. If you think of all the training and work he's had to get to to get there, compared to city workers it's not much. A friend of mine who works in corporate law earns £100K working a 2 day week!

Susannahmoody · 05/08/2021 18:00

I complained about the member of staff - everyone was disinterested and suggested I was mistaken about what she’d said until they found out that my DH was clinical director of the neighboring specialist hospital, and he was heading in to blow his stack. Then I was fawned over and patted a lot. Communism at its finest.

^

So many things wrong here I don't know what to say. Medical professionals suggesting you don't know your own mind? Just give the women some smelling salts and have done with it, why dontcha

Dispicable

NotPersephone · 05/08/2021 18:06

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RosesAndHellebores · 05/08/2021 18:07

I don't earn much less and dropped out of uni. However, if I complained endlessly to my customers about my working conditions I would sanctioned and if it continued dismissed. Do people in the NHS who carp continuously realise the impression they give to the vulnerable. "It's not my fault, we are overworked". My response nowadays is "why have I heard and seen three people talking about what they did at the weekend for the last 20 minutes then".

The culture is atrocious and I don't want to hear about a nurse's partner, husband, boyfriend, children and how things have changed over the last 30 years. I certainly don't want to share similar details with them or chat about the colour of my top. I want a job done, quietly, quickly and competently and suspect if there was a little more focus on it there would be fewer errors.

That's what happened at my last appointment. There were two patients and two nurses (infusion) and they constantly complained about busy they were. There was no evidence of busy or of them being rushed off their feet, but goodness what I don't know about their lives I could wrote on a postage stamp.