To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

[BFrazzled]

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

@gerispringer

So if a rider has a relationship with a particular horse then why isn’t the horse mentioned as a winner.? Oh no, some of you believe a horse is the same as a bike or boat.

Only non- equestrians think that. If you go on horsey social media you will find plenty of credit and admiration given to the horses.

Wow, all the replies on here are unlikely to have helped the OP understand, all you've all done is effectively yelled at them and slammed other sports instead. Calling someone ignorant is pointless, horseriding, particularly dressage is hardly something the majority get to experience so how could we understand it? I grew up on a farm and I still could afford to horse ride even though we had space for a horse! So EXPLAIN the dressage, you say it's natural movements etc, ok, how does that work? To the uninitiated onlooker it seems as though the rider is holding the horses head at a terribly awkward angle to make them take small steps, I have never seen a horse out in a field choose to walk like that. So HOW do they train them? And don't yell please, I'm genuinely trying to understand, because yes, honestly, it seems cruel, so help me understand. (And to all who compare it with other animal welfare issues, I don't think it's one or the other few, eg, most people should not have dogs, the dogs shut in houses is astoundingly cruel and unnatural.)

@gerispringer

So if a rider has a relationship with a particular horse then why isn’t the horse mentioned as a winner.? Oh no, some of you believe a horse is the same as a bike or boat.

The horsees are mentioned though. A lot. Have you not seen how much Vallegro and Pumpkin are talked about. The rider is nothing without their horse and they typically adore them. Not all riders of course. Show jumping, for instance, has competitions with huge prizes and the horses can be very commercialised and treated as a means to an end. They are still well looked after (mainly) but can be commodified.

@gerispringer the horse’s name is listed alongside the riders whenever they are announced. There are champion horses and people who are interested in equestrian events do know their names.

I would venture to suggest that people don’t remember most names, not just horses - without looking it up, name me the individual members of the British women’s relay team. Or one of the divers from the last olympics who wasn’t Tom Daley. Or any of the members of the women’s football team.

Not to mention, the horse doesn’t care. The reward for the horse is taking part in activity they enjoy, and the praise from their rider and grooms. They couldn’t care less about whether they’ve won or not, whereas humans do.

Some species of animals enjoy killing other animals - dog fighting is banned rightly. We don’t encourage every natural behaviour. So just to say it’s a natural behaviour so we can exploit it for our entertainment doesn’t wash. Teaching your child to say please and thank you isn’t the same. I’m not particularly for or against dressage btw, just wondered why the horse doesn’t get a mention, and why it’s ok to say a horse is the same as a boat.

No rider can fully impose their will on a horse. If it wants to bolt it will and you literally can pull on the reins for all you are worth and it's not much good. The horses learn those movements and want to please their rider. Horses aren't hurt by these routines. There are very precise movements and the horses have to co-operate to learn these. These horses aren't mistreated and have great lives.

@ElvenDreamer ok, at its most basic explanation- dressage is a communication exercise. The rider is using their hands, feet, knees, seat to give the horse a series of tiny messages, which the horse then answers with the corresponding movement.

You can teach these in a variety of ways - you start with simple commands and by guiding the horse, and by giving the signal when the horse does something naturally and then praising. So for example - the most very basic of commands is to ‘walk on’. Before a horse is even ridden for the first time, you lead it on a rope. When the horse moves forward, you say walk on. You praise the horse for listening and following. When you start riding the horse, you give the vocal command it already knows for walk on, and also apply pressure to the flanks with your heels and the horse starts to associate the two signals and then you stop using the verbal one.

Or to get a horse to walk sideways - you are using your feet and your seat in such a way that you are creating a direction of motion the horse can then follow.

Does that make sense?

Ok, quite a few people with interesting thoughts...

1. Horses live up to around 30 years and it takes years of training to reach the Olympics. Of course the horse who competed in the 90s is no longer competing.

2. The horses do not get "left behind". They've spent years training them. They are flown home and continue their competition career.

3. If the horses don't make the grade, they go to lower level homes. Dressage competitions start at a much more basic level and a horse that can't reach the Olympics would still be very much sought after.

4. The horses are very well looked after when they travel, and they travel internationally quite often for competitions. If they were stressed by it, they wouldn't be able to compete effectively, so the horses' temperament is part of why they are chosen.

5. Dressage moves are not unnatural. When horses are excited, they prance around the field. Some horses also jump over things for fun.

@sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

I know. It's like sailors & rowers who have to use the same boats throughout their entire career... oh no, wait, they don't... Maybe it's about the skill, talent & experience of the person involved, and how they get the best out of their horses? As PPs have said, you try making a horse do something it doesn't want to & see how well you get on.

Yep - Australian Andrew Hoy, in his 60s. At his 8th Olympics. And of course it was a different horse but trust me, as someone who follows him closely his horses are incredibly well looked after and he is a fabulous Australian icon

@HandforthParishCouncilClerk thank you, that does make sense, in terms of direction I think I'd assumed that to an extent. What about the way they pick their feet up high and take tiny steps? How would you get them to do it the first time? So they then understand the future cues? I mean does a trainer literally pick their foot up to the required angle while someone else gives them what will become the cue? Or do horses naturally step like that when their head is at a certain angle anyway?

@gerispringer

Some species of animals enjoy killing other animals - dog fighting is banned rightly. We don’t encourage every natural behaviour. So just to say it’s a natural behaviour so we can exploit it for our entertainment doesn’t wash. Teaching your child to say please and thank you isn’t the same. I’m not particularly for or against dressage btw, just wondered why the horse doesn’t get a mention, and why it’s ok to say a horse is the same as a boat.

No one who loves, cares about and respects horses thinks about them in the same way as a boat. We know they are very different to an inanimate object. Like everything in life though, you always get arseholes and there are lots of people of mistreat animals. Most equestrians though adore their horses and want to give them the best life. Lots of riders would rather spend their last penny on food for their horse than themselves and will often make do and mend on their own clothes/homes/cars etc.

@gerispringer the horse gets mentioned every single time they compete. The horses are being praised all over the horsey social media - they are probably talked about more than the riders, very much which one would you like in your stable.
And from a spectator point of view a lot of equestrian sport is very accessible. There is a top competion centre near me and, covid restrictions excepting, I could go along and watch top level competitors for free. Last month I could have watched the current eventing team and several other previous olympians compete for £0. I've stood queuing to buy a coffee and chatted to Olympian show jumpers. Again for £0. If I wanted to watch the local 20th rate football team I would have to pay. I think they did charge £10 to watch the international dressage comp.

@ElvenDreamer

Wow, all the replies on here are unlikely to have helped the OP understand, all you've all done is effectively yelled at them and slammed other sports instead. Calling someone ignorant is pointless, horseriding, particularly dressage is hardly something the majority get to experience so how could we understand it? I grew up on a farm and I still could afford to horse ride even though we had space for a horse! So EXPLAIN the dressage, you say it's natural movements etc, ok, how does that work? To the uninitiated onlooker it seems as though the rider is holding the horses head at a terribly awkward angle to make them take small steps, I have never seen a horse out in a field choose to walk like that. So HOW do they train them? And don't yell please, I'm genuinely trying to understand, because yes, honestly, it seems cruel, so help me understand. (And to all who compare it with other animal welfare issues, I don't think it's one or the other few, eg, most people should not have dogs, the dogs shut in houses is astoundingly cruel and unnatural.)

If you ever seen horses play in a field, there can easily execute much more extravagant moves than in a dressage test!

The movements all come from the seat and changing of weight distribution and tiny leg aids. If your horses head is held in by your hands then you are a bad rider and the horse will not have the impulsion to execute any of the moves (think of the horses rear as it's "engine"). The reins are there is guide and support the horse and contain the energy, many horses lean on them for support and balance when required. Although that is mainly at the lower levels when the horse can't really balance itself well enough. Most horses find comfort in a consistent rein contact and it's a way of constantly communicating with the horse, bit it basically can only move the head and not really in the way that is conducive (tilting etc).

It looks easy because the whole point is that you can't see what the rider does. That comes from when it was all about war moves and a large aid would give your next move away. Both the riders and horses have immense core strength.

Training wise, yes some people use cruel Training methods. Just like any sport, there are shits. Butvthat doesn't detract from the sport itself

@ElvenDreamer this video explains it better than me:

Totally agree. Dressage is the absolute worst of all, so unnatural. And transporting the animals that far for a foolish event like that is beyond me. I don’t think anything involving animals should make up part of the Olympics

[quote ElvenDreamer]@HandforthParishCouncilClerk thank you, that does make sense, in terms of direction I think I'd assumed that to an extent. What about the way they pick their feet up high and take tiny steps? How would you get them to do it the first time? So they then understand the future cues? I mean does a trainer literally pick their foot up to the required angle while someone else gives them what will become the cue? Or do horses naturally step like that when their head is at a certain angle anyway?[/quote]
No, they don't physically lift the horses leg up. You start with selecting the right horse. One that naturally moves with more power and expression in its paces. Explaining it is so hard though, as it involves technical terms, like self carriage, cadence, taking the weight behind, half halt sitting etc!!! I'd need to explain each of those terms too! You are gradually teaching the horse to turn forward power into upward power. They need to learn to carry more of their weight in their hind legs. This then allows them to lighten the weight at the front and let's them lift their legs higher. It takes a lot of strength and balance to do it and it's part of why it takes years. You can't just yank on the reins and get them to 'sit'. It's such a technical sport.

I read yesterday that the horses were flown over in special cargo planes with vets, grooms, special moist hay to stop dehydration and special air con to keep the temperature right for them. Apparently the planes had a longer landing and take off so the horses don't feel the acceleration and deceleration like we do.

If anyone in the North Beds area is interested I will take you on a course walk around a cross country course August Bank Holiday weekend. It won't be Olympic level obviously but it will give you an idea of the nerves of steel these riders have.

@Cherrysoup

Yet another thread about this? Don’t bloody watch it, then! Christ!

Yeah was thinking this. Some posters just can't help but prove how simple they are.

I love watching equestrian events. There’s lots I switch off as I have no interest in it (weight lifting and boxing being two). That’s what so great about the Olympics; there’s something for everyone.

The only thing that slightly irks me about equestrian events is the exclusivity of it. It’s almost impossible for someone from an average or under privileged background to get into (despite what the eventing team said during their interview). It’s a costly sport to learn even at the most basic level, let alone compete in. You need to come from a background of privilege to even get started.

No more stupid than people fighting in a ring, prancing about doing tumbles or jumping over high bars? They are all sports with fans, if you aren't keen don't watch. The horses are very well cared for, and the dressage ones are already back in the U.K. relaxing in fields

@Carthief

What would you rather see in the olympics?

Sexually abused half starved gymnasts who are permanently stunted due to the training regime since they were 3?

13 year old skate board enthusiasts who fall off every 3 minutes whilst wearing no safety gear?

Testosterone laden athletes running 100m?

People assaulting each other in the name of sport aka “boxing”

Oh wait, you can watch those too.

Of all the events in the Olympics the horses are possibly the least ridiculous and the ones with the greatest welfare standards, it’s not the horses I worry about.

Quite.

People are entitled to have opinions on this, saying "Dont watch it then" is just pig ignorant.

Horse ride imho isn't a sport, neither is golf or sailing, why not have darts, snooker or black jack? they are all games of skill.

The olympics should be about athletic performance.

...and yes i do switch off/turn over - horse riding is cruel and manipulative.

As someone who has ridden for about 25 years, I'm fucking cringing at how arrogant some of the responses you've had from "horse people" are. No wonder people think it's a closed sport which is just for the privileged. Well done. You could have helped people understand this great sport instead you insult people who are asking questions. Maybe it's just because the "horse people" on here dont actually understand top level dressage either and can't explain it

@Dentistlakes

I love watching equestrian events. There’s lots I switch off as I have no interest in it (weight lifting and boxing being two). That’s what so great about the Olympics; there’s something for everyone.

The only thing that slightly irks me about equestrian events is the exclusivity of it. It’s almost impossible for someone from an average or under privileged background to get into (despite what the eventing team said during their interview). It’s a costly sport to learn even at the most basic level, let alone compete in. You need to come from a background of privilege to even get started.

No you don't. Carl Hester who has been on the dressage team for a number of times and any world championships didn't come from a background of privilege. A lot don't. They get money from sponsorships and owners of the horses. The owners are the rich ones, rarely are the riders rich. Most of these riders make a small profit or just break even too.