To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

[BFrazzled]

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

Ok, so no answers, just glib remarks when people have clearly shown they are aware that it’s not perfect but that everyone is concerned with horse welfare

[quote ChiefClerkDrumknott]@Hopeisallineed Specifically which of the Olympic horses do you think look as though they were suffering?

All of the ones I saw looked in peak fitness, very healthy and happy. There are riders who’s style I don’t agree with, but that’s a seperate issue to the claim that it’s cruel to fly these horses out to Japan. The racing industry has nothing to do with the Olympics, apart from the fact that some ex-racers are retrained as eventers or showjumpers (I’m not sure if there were any there this year tbh).

Some are spookier than others, naturally, but none looked as though they were distressed. The eventers wear literally rearing to go in the x-country start box, so I’m fairly sure they enjoy their job[/quote]
Glenfly, a member of the Brazilian 3DE team, is an ex-racehorse who raced at the likes of Towcester. (Incidentally, his rider withdrew the horse after the cross-country phase because he felt the showjumping would be too much for him, demonstrating how riders at all levels are capable of putting the welfare of his horse above their personal quest for glory.)

There is abuse in all aspects of equestrian life, as there is in all walks of life. That is inevitable, because a percentage of all people are shits and shits crop up everywhere, and because a percentage of people let money cloud their better judgement and there is money to be made in certain horse sports. But they are the minority, generally they are called out - even if sometimes that takes longer than ideal - and the governing bodies take infringements seriously. Stories of bans for riders such as those posted above are a sign of this seriousness; yes it would be even better if the abuse didn't happen in the first place but if it is proven to have happened, there are sanctions in place which strike at the culprit's reputation and livelihood.

I don't agree with all the opinions of horse owners/lovers on this thread, and I don't disagree with all the points made by those looking at it with a fresh eye from without the horse world. There are always improvements that can be made. Personally I like lots of aspects of horse racing and tend to follow it, but I would ban the whip (for anything other than correction of course) and also racing two year olds. However the flipside is that the majority of people in the horse world do love and care for their horses, at all levels, and even more traditional elements of the sport are waking up to the importance of improving welfare standards and hundreds of thousands of pounds each year goes into veterinary and other equine research (e.g. the misting cooling fans used in Tokyo and other venues). Another example is that the BHA (the body that governs horseracing in Britain) has already started a long term project to improve the traceability of horses leaving racing - it's a shame that wasn't shown on the Panorama documentary, or the excellent work done by the Retraining of Racehorses and similar organisations.

Horse sport is not perfect, but the majority of participants are not blind to that fact - you'll always get the odd vocal hidebound traditionalist - and are actively working to provide the horses and ponies in their care the best standards available to them. And there are mechanisms for reporting abuse if you see it: one of the governing bodies, as listed above, or organisations such as World Horse Welfare, RSPCA etc.

@Hopeisallineed

😂😂😂 I have cats but they don’t compete in sports ( as far as I’m aware) I don’t ride them around the garden, trying to make them trot nicely. Enjoying the way you are completely ignoring the recent article on dressage abuse from an Olympian though. 😉

Maybe you shouldn't own cats though considering what they go through in shows across the country. They get forced into clothes they don't want to wear, put into cars for long journeys they don't understand why they are going, then brought in front of strange people to be poked and prodded. Maybe cat shows and cat ownership should be banned too because of those people.

@grumpytoddler1

Loving the attempts to suggest that equestrian events aren't exclusive or just for rich people.

Princess Anne, Captain Mark Phillips and Zara Phillips have all competed in the Olympics in equestrian events. So clearly it's a pure meritocracy

I have learned lots from from the thread about equestrian sports, so thanks to everyone on this thread who took time to express their opinion politely, on both sides (and I would admit that my initial post wasn't polite, but I am still glad it started the discussion).

However I would like to note that there were a lot of posts on this thread just plain refusing to engage with any discussion of abuse ('you cannot make the horse do what it doesn't want to', 'spurs are absolutely fine if used properly', 'just use the remote', '...not in the UK', etc). Well, they speak for themselves. I am not an animal rights activist, I own a dog (who I by the way don't prick with a sharp prod when it does wrong, don't hit with my foot and don't pull by its mouth, and who I still, admittedly, somehow make to do many things it doesn't want to - although not on the level of dressage),. To me these replies really showed there is a problem, much larger than I suspected initially.

@SmokeyDevil yep. You are totally right. Really I secretly think all animal ownership is weird and only own cats because basically they don’t give a shit about me and can’t really be ‘owned’ but I totally agree with you about cat shows, in fact any animal competitions, including horse events and feel very sorry about the stress they go through being shipped all over the world for our amusement.

[quote Hopeisallineed]@SmokeyDevil yep. You are totally right. Really I secretly think all animal ownership is weird and only own cats because basically they don’t give a shit about me and can’t really be ‘owned’ but I totally agree with you about cat shows, in fact any animal competitions, including horse events and feel very sorry about the stress they go through being shipped all over the world for our amusement.[/quote]
But you are being hypocritical because you do own a pet. You take her to the vets (I assume) for check ups and vaccinations etc, which scare her. You feed her food she may secretly not like but eats anyway because its what you are giving her. You cannot come to us proclaiming that we participate in a cruel sport or ownership when you participate in owning animals. Until you get rid of your cat, you are a hypocrite and your opinion means nothing.

This conversation is just getting more and more batshit.

@SmokeyDevil
Just what are you on about?

Most people believe that it is ok to do certain things to an animal and not ok to some other things. Like it is ok to take a sick cat to the vet but not ok to make a cat perform in the circus.

Cat circus makes most people in this country cringe because they are not used to this. "Horse ballet" also makes people unused to it cringe, for roughly the same reason. Wether these two are comparable is a valid question (which some people on this thread tried to actually answer).

Tbf I couldn't get upset about a cat circus, they are hardly snatched from the wild if you are meaning a domestic cat. If you mean tigers etc then clearly it's not the same as one is a wild animal even if born in captivity whereas one has been domesticated for thousands of years

Cat circuses??
Horse ballet??

I think @SmokeyDevil you are just a bit confused. If you read my posts I do not think the entire sport needs to be banned. I think your rage is getting you slightly muddled. I was replying initially to a post that said ‘ I should turn a blind eye’ to dressage if I think it’s abusive. I think some practices in dressage are definitely open to abuse and some people practice unnecessary training techniques ( hence my post regarding the Olympian earlier) and it’s not a leap to think that is happening elsewhere. I would like this highlighted and acknowledged and not everyone whipping up in a frenzy in huge denial about it all. It does happen and the more it is talked about and brought in to the public arena, the better for everyone involved in the sport especially the animals, who after all, are not our sole playthings.
Not everyone is the perfect animal owner or doing it for the right reasons, the desperate desire to win can sometimes lead to bad practices.
I do absolutely think shipping animals thousands of miles for a competition to satisfy our needs for entertainment is bizarre and definitely not on the same level as taking you cat to the vet. I don’t lock her in the hold of a plane for 17 hours at a time. You are not really helping your point by posting ridiculous parallels between humans owning cats and competitive horse events but hey, knock yourself out. And just as a by-the-by if you ever owned a cat your would know that you can’t make it eat anything it doesn’t want to and that’s a fact! 🤣

Nobody said turn a blind eye to abuse!

If you aren't actually going to even try to report abuse when you see it then there is nothing you can do about it is there, apart from sit on the Internet moaning about how complicit people are if they compete their horses.

And the cat comments are valid. You own a cat, it's your pet, you have control over it, despite knowing some cats are treated badly.

Why not listen to the horse owners on the thread who know more than you do?

You may already know this, but horses can sleep standing up so travelling doesn't stop them from sleeping, or eating/drinking (they travel with their own food/hay that they're familiar with, and the team vet(s) travel with them too).

Also they travel in a lorry for hours to events in the UK and Europe. If they don't travel well they wouldn't make it to that level.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Nobody said turn a blind eye to abuse!

If you aren't actually going to even try to report abuse when you see it then there is nothing you can do about it is there, apart from sit on the Internet moaning about how complicit people are if they compete their horses.

And the cat comments are valid. You own a cat, it's your pet, you have control over it, despite knowing some cats are treated badly.

Why not listen to the horse owners on the thread who know more than you do?

Well the problem is that people most likely to see abuse are horsey people and as it seems from this thread not all of them agree to the general society definition of animal abuse. By discussing it we are more likely to make those who are actually involved with horses to think about it critically.

@VeryLongBeeeep

You may already know this, but horses can sleep standing up so travelling doesn't stop them from sleeping, or eating/drinking (they travel with their own food/hay that they're familiar with, and the team vet(s) travel with them too).

They travel in more luxury than us humans on Ryanair 🤣

Put it this way a stressed horse wouldn't win any medals and the horses winning travelled some of the furthest distances of all the competitors

as it seems from this thread not all of them agree to the general society definition of animal abuse

ODFOD

They travel in more luxury than us humans on Ryanair

I didn't have to pay extra for his checked baggage, either. AND he got priority boarding.

By discussing it we are more likely to make those who are actually involved with horses to think about it critically

I think it’s very unlikely that the factually inaccurate ramblings of a self-professed amateur who doesn’t know anything about horses are going to make anyone who is actually involved with horses and knows what they’re talking about ‘think critically’ for the first time.

‘what if you think equestrian sport is cruel, unnecessary and abusive to the animals involved?

Then keep it to yourself and remind yourself that the vast majority of horses in this country are looked after extremely well, even if they are competing.’

It may be semantics but ‘keep it to yourself’ is the same as ‘turn a blind eye’ ???

By discussing it we are more likely to make those who are actually involved with horses to think about it critically

The arrogance! I think everything you've said is ignorant goady shite, so no, it won't be affecting how I think about things.

@Hopeisallineed

It may be semantics but ‘keep it to yourself’ is the same as ‘turn a blind eye’ ???

No, it meant stop ranting about historic abuse and being offensive to the horse owners on this thread when you've done the best part of fuck all to do anything about it in real life.

I think perhaps it could be taken to mean, 'tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to open one's mouth and remove all possible doubt'.