That £4m on Latin lessons should be spent on a modern foreign language

[newnortherner111]

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/latin-state-schools-england-williamson-b1894202.html

Latest idea from the Education Secretary. Given that the Prime Minister has been in a Catholic church at least once, did he not tell Gavin Williamson that the Catholic Mass is usually in the local language now, and has been for over 50 years?

Encouraging learning Spanish for example would be much better and actually have a use in real life.

@KeflavikAirport

I, too, am loving the thought of chemists with three science A levels floundering in their degrees for a lack of Latin.

I'm seriously thinking about posting some molecules on here with their Latin descriptors to see if people can match them up

@KeflavikAirport

I, too, am loving the thought of chemists with three science A levels floundering in their degrees for a lack of Latin.

Having idly spent some time pondering the terms used in arene substitution (as one does on a lazy Sunday morning), it seems that knowing what the Latin words mean would be little help and possibly a hinderance.

You could even run it as a consortium between local state schools. each school chooses 5 kids from each year group.

After school they walk/get the bus to another school (or stay at their own). Latin teacher does the lesson, gets £60 quid per night. Maximum 5 nights a week, less if you want to teach 7&8 in one group etc.

Kids have to complete an online course like babbel (or free alternative) to show willingness and aptitude before they are considered

100k? what teachers cost 100k?

You might want to have a look at what some of the MATS pay their top staff.

Anyone can learn to read all the Romance,. Slavic and Germanic languages without studying Latin by using the Seven Sieves method.

That is true about 100k and is a huge sum of money, I was thinking about schools doing it independently.

If the pilot scheme works and has results for long-term outcomes, it could convince schools to provide it independently, or bid for funding, especially for their child on FSM

Latin for all would be brilliant, it's a great help for learning MFL. I went to a state school and wasn't given the opportunity but my degree is classical studies (classics with no requirement for Latin to access the course). Let's give state educated children the same opportunities as privately educated children ( and I don't mean grammar schools)!

Let's give state educated children the same opportunities as privately educated children

Maybe the £4 million could be spent on not selling off school playing fields so they have the same opportunity to play sport?

What on earth has sport got to do with this? Sport doesn't get you into elite universities.

@GreenestValley

Totally disagree, Latin is the root of all European languages so has benefits in terms of understanding the linguistic principles underpinning all languages.

Added to which it is a portal into learning about ancient civilization, literature, and a whole world of culture different from our own.

Nothing at all to do with going to mass! Surely you can see there is value in academic studies for how they encourage you to think, rather than just practical application?

This in spades. I really wish I’d been taught Latin, it would have been far more useful than a lot of the stuff I was taught.

People talking about state kids having the same opportunities as private ones.

Do you think it’s Latin that gets private kids into elite universities and that with a bit more Latin for working class kids, the playing field will be level?

No, it will never be a level playing field in an education system where parents can use their money to get a better standard.

However, Latin is going to shift the goalposts on playing field far more than your suggestion of keeping the literal playing fields instead.

I feel slightly offended actually; it's like you're saying: "You ruffians don't need Latin, here, kick this ball around on the grass instead"

Knowing Spanish, French, Italian or any other Romance language gives you a general awareness of Latin anyway.

Or, reversing the mirror, learning Latin gives you an appreciation of 3 other languages simultaneously ....

However, Latin is going to shift the goalposts on playing field far more

You are, quite frankly, deluded if you think that this piffling effort from the government is going to do anything to widen access to elite unis to disadvantaged kids.

I feel slightly offended actually; it's like you're saying: "You ruffians don't need Latin, here, kick this ball around on the grass instead"

Are you not aware of the money, time and resources that private schools pour into sports?

I feel slightly offended actually; it's like you're saying: "You ruffians don't need Latin, here, kick this ball around on the grass instead"

Which is 1950s English education in a nutshell.

Learning any Romance language is a gateway to all the other Romance languages. Latin isn't particularly magical in that respect.

There are a lot of benefits to Latin, or ancient root languages in general. But for Europeans, that generally means Latin and Greek.

It seems to be mainly the English speaking world that is so useless and stupid about language learning. The same countries that take modern languages seriously also tend to take ancient languages seriously. It's not some kind of either/or proposition.

However, Latin is going to shift the goalposts on playing field far more than your suggestion of keeping the literal playing fields instead.

Latin is not going to shift the goal posts at all.

Sport doesn't get you into elite universities

Are you sure about that?

Are you not aware of the money, time and resources that private schools pour into sports?

This. I work at a private school. I have just tried counting our PE staff. Granted, many are part time but I genuinely can’t tell you how many of them there are. 14 at my last best guess.

The government that 'delivered' brexshit is never going to encourage modern foreign language learning.

We must pretend like our closest neighbours are Australia and Hong Kong now. Europe is invisible.

BJ has a classic degree, so I doubt this is a coincidence. However, a classics degree still doesn't confer the ability to manage a pandemic humanely.

BTW the best grammars in the country do not even do latin gcse/a level necessarily, they are more likely to do mandarin.

Can anyone who actually knows what they're talking about tell me specifically why they believe that Latin provides more help towards learning other modern languages (which are actually spoken) than another modern language would?

If someone put you in charge of getting a bunch of, say, 8yo or 11 yo kids to a really pretty decent level of comprehension, speaking and writing in French, for example, would your first thought be "I know, let's teach them Latin!"? And if they then took up Spanish later, would you really think that their Latin declensions and 'Caecilius est in horto' etc would be more help with that than the French they had learned? It really, really wouldn't.

It seems to be mainly the English speaking world that is so useless and stupid about language learning.

Arrogance and laziness. Generally doesn't end well.

I have O Levels in Latin & French

I didn't go onto pursue languages at a further education level

I have a degree

Please explain how Latin will improve a child's prospects to gain employment in today's society?

Personally, I think that French & Spanish would be more useful

Many private schools don’t teach Latin so I wonder whether they will feel compelled to add it to the timetable if all state schools do?

My husband learned Latin at his public school and thinks it was a complete waste of time. I suppose like any subject it depends a lot on the teacher. Little point in having Latin classes in more schools unless it can be well taught.